Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Yes - I have one of each.

I am actually a retired, wounded Navy Corpsman who served with SEAL Team 6 in many black missions including Operations Urgent Fury and Nifty Package. Squirreled away in my closet is a set of authentic BDUs and class Bs which I wear to parades & to eateries (with ALL my ribbons on them!!!!) and let other folks buy me my meals. I have two cards in my wallet - one identifies me as a member of the MOPH Society & the other as a member of the CMOH Society. Sometimes I let these "slip" as I fumble for cash at a fast food place. This, of course, causes the guy behind the counter to ask about it and I explain how I was involved in that "bit of nastyness in Panama" and got shot up pretty bad but still got three buddies out to medical units. Of course, my eyes sweat just a bit when I have to confess that one never made it home. But hey - another free meal!!!

Any words to describe me? Scum? Too nice. !@#$ing Bastard? Please, you can do worse. How about "Totally within my rights as protected under Freedom of Speech"? DING!DING!DING!!!! WINNNARRRR!!

According to Federal Judge Robert Blackburn the Stolen Valor act means nothing! Here's the WaPo Articlw:

Judge: Law penalizing fake heroes unconstitutional
By DAN ELLIOTT
The Associated Press
Friday, July 16, 2010; 5:27 PM

DENVER -- A law that makes it illegal to lie about being a war hero is unconstitutional because it violates free speech, a federal judge ruled Friday as he dismissed a case against a Colorado man who claimed he received two military medals.

Rick Glen Strandlof claimed he was an ex-Marine who was wounded in Iraq and received the Purple Heart and Silver Star, but the military had no record he ever served. He was charged with violating the Stolen Valor Act, which makes it a crime punishable by up to a year in jail to falsely claim to have won a military medal.

U.S. District Judge Robert Blackburn dismissed the case and said the law is unconstitutional, ruling the government did not show it has a compelling reason to restrict that type of statement.

A spokesman for the U.S. attorney in Denver said prosecutors are reviewing the decision and haven't decided whether to appeal. The spokesman said that decision would be made by the U.S. Justice Department in Washington and prosecutors in Denver.

Strandlof's lawyer, Bob Pepin, said he hadn't spoken to Strandlof since the ruling was issued. Pepin said he would advise Strandlof not to comment publicly because the case might be appealed.

"Obviously, we think this is the right decision, or we wouldn't have been making the objections to the statute to begin with," he said. Pepin said Strandlof has been living in a halfway house in Denver while his case is in the courts.

The law has also been challenged in California and in a case now before the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Denver attorney Christopher P. Beall, who filed a friend-of-the-court brief for the American Civil Liberties Union of Colorado, said the Stolen Valor Act is fatally flawed because it doesn't require prosecutors to show anyone was harmed or defamed by the lie.

"The government position was that any speech that's false is not protected by the First Amendment. That proposition is very dangerous," Beall said.

"It puts the government in a much more powerful position to prosecute people for speaking out on things they believe to be true but turn out not to be true," he said.

Beall said the ACLU was not defending the actions Strandlof is accused of, but took issue with the principle behind the law.

Rep. John Salazar, D-Colo., who sponsored the Stolen Valor Act in the House, predicted the decision will be overturned on appeal.

"This is an issue of fraud plain and simple," Salazar said in a written release. "The individuals who violate this law are those who knowingly portray themselves as pillars of the community for personal and monetary gain."

Pam Sterner, who as a college student wrote a policy analysis that became the basis of Salazar's bill, said the issue isn't free speech but misrepresentation. Sterner, a former Coloradan who now lives in Virginia, said authentic medal winners' credibility suffers when impostors are exposed because the public becomes suspicious of even true stories of heroism.
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I have an idea - let's get Blackburn, Strandlof and Pepin together along with their ACLU buddies, pack them off to Parris Island, then ship'em off to Iraquistan and see how long they last.

How about just making it legal to punch them in the face?Much more satisfying.

sasquatch wrote:How about just making it legal to punch them in the face? Much more satisfying.

I was thinking about delivering a swift kick much lower, but they probably don't have anything there to kick.

Maybe the females

It should be treated the same as impersonating a person i hteir proffesional capacity like a Lawyer,Doctor, etc: that makes many states laws get down right nasty. Anytime someone misrepresents themselves to obtain free goods or services , fraud is committed and depending on the degree of that fraud the charges can be minor to draconian. I think they should be forced to wear a sign around their necks stating their disgraceful behavior and made to stand in public for a set period of time and let the people have at em.

VBshooter wrote:It should be treated the same as impersonating a person i hteir proffesional capacity like a Lawyer,Doctor, etc: that makes many states laws get down right nasty. Anytime someone misrepresents themselves to obtain free goods or services , fraud is committed and depending on the degree of that fraud the charges can be minor to draconian. I think they should be forced to wear a sign around their necks stating their disgraceful behavior and made to stand in public for a set period of time and let the people have at em.

If you are walking around trying to make yourself feel bigger and do this, you're are just a liar. We don't need another law, getting goods and services in this manner is fraud.


Edit: The punishment should fit the crime. Fraud in this manner is no different than fraud in another. While particular things upset us differently, we shouldn't heap on punishment just because we don't like the activity and think it is extra disgraceful.

THis is the sort of thing that at least exposes the lying pukes when they are finally found out to be fakers.http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies1002.htm

Reminds me of this rude idiot I had that would come in to work when I was in college. He'd always give me a load of crap about me checking his ID when he bought alcohol with a, "I didn't get my ass shot at [Gulf War I] to have some young punk [he was my age] check my [censored] ID."

After a few weeks of this, I finally asked what branch and what he did. He first told me he couldn't tell me, so I scoffed. He got angry and told me he was in the Navy Rangers special operations and he jumped out of a helicopter on to the Kuwaiti beach.

Mindflayer wrote:Reminds me of this rude idiot I had that would come in to work when I was in college. He'd always give me a load of crap about me checking his ID when he bought alcohol with a, "I didn't get my ass shot at [Gulf War I] to have some young punk [he was my age] check my [censored] ID."

After a few weeks of this, I finally asked what branch and what he did. He first told me he couldn't tell me, so I scoffed. He got angry and told me he was in the Navy Rangers special operations and he jumped out of a helicopter on to the Kuwaiti beach.

Navy Rangers, eh? That must be super secret cause I've never heard of them!

it don't matter. We have a president who faked his own record and half(better than half) the country voted for him. People don't give a rats ass about honor.

Seal Team 6 huh? I'd love to see one of those queebabbies say that crap where a real guy from ST-6 was around to aks him a couple simple questions...

OakRidgeStars wrote:

sasquatch wrote:How about just making it legal to punch them in the face? Much more satisfying.

I was thinking about delivering a swift kick much lower, but they probably don't have anything there to kick.

One of Dad's old sayings was to 'kick a fur collar up around their neck'

...

A spokesman for the U.S. attorney in Denver said prosecutors are reviewing the decision and haven't decided whether to appeal. The spokesman said that decision would be made by the U.S. Justice Department in Washington and prosecutors in Denver.

...

What makes people think that Eric Holder or Obama know who to prosecute.

I think that anyone that impersonates a veteran, whether a medal winner or not, should have his ass kicked.

Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw once that said " If you can't stand behind our troops, please stand in front of them".

Damn brainless sack of numbnuts...

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US appeals court panel: Law against faking receipt of military medals is unconstitutional

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/17/ap ... itutional/

PASADENA, Calif.

A three-year-old federal law that makes it a crime to falsely claim to have received a medal from the U.S. military is unconstitutional, an appeals court panel in California ruled Tuesday. ...

A three-year-old federal law that makes it a crime to falsely claim to have received a medal from the U.S. military is unconstitutional, an appeals court panel in California ruled Tuesday.

The decision involves the case of Xavier Alvarez of Pomona, Calif., a water district board member who said at a public meeting in 2007 that he was a retired Marine who received the Medal of Honor, the nation's highest military decoration.

Alvarez was indicted in 2007. He pleaded guilty on condition that he be allowed to appeal on First Amendment grounds. He was sentenced under the Stolen Valor Act to more than 400 hours of community service at a veterans hospital and fined $5,000.

A panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals sided with him in a 2-1 decision Tuesday, agreeing that the law was a violation of his free-speech rights. The majority said there's no evidence that such lies harm anybody, and there's no compelling reason for the government to ban such lies.

The dissenting justice insisted that the majority refused to follow clear Supreme Court precedent that false statements of fact are not entitled to First Amendment protection.

The act revised and toughened a law that forbids anyone to wear a military medal that wasn't earned. The measure sailed through Congress in late 2006, receiving unanimous approval in the Senate.

Dozens of people have been arrested under the law at a time when veterans coming home from wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are being embraced as heroes. Many of the cases involve men who simply got caught living a lie without profiting from it. Almost all the impostors have been ordered to perform community service.

The U.S. Attorney's Office in Los Angeles said it was deciding whether to appeal Tuesday's ruling.

I can understand the First Amendment stance. There is no victim here, and it's not going to cause potential harm, like screaming, "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Really, I can understand.

That said, it's a matter of honor. If you can stomp all over our First Amendment rights with "Free speech zones" and "Political correctness tests", then you can honor our bravest citizens with some protection. Otherwise, cosmetologists will have more protection than our heroes.

Just another bad call by a liberal judge who would be better as a door greeter at Wally;s World,,.Seems to be a trend in the country that these left leaning pukes are all following and screwing things up with their BS

Mindflayer - I have to disagree - there are victims here. The more this behaviour is allowed to be "protected" the more our Verterans' honor and value is diminished. On too many occasions I have seen or heared of some good samaritan paying for a "Vet's" meal or bar-tab. While small gestures they can mean alot - especially for a disabled Grunt living off food stamps. How much longer will folks do that? Now, whrn you see a person wearing a "Combat Jacket" or a Vietnam ball cap do you immediatly think; "Thank you" or is it more of; "I'd liiike to zeee your paperrrz..."?

And especially in this case.....

Back in 2007, Xavier Alvarez told a crowd while he was campaigning for the post of water commissioner, that he was a Marine and that he’d been awarded the Medal of Honor, neither of which was true. Melissa Campbell, a former active duty Marine herself, questioned the veracity of the statement. She was suspended from her job two weeks later for unprofessional behavior and fired two weeks after that.

There was specifically harm done AND he used his lies to gain public office. Some will call the SVA "piling on" - fine. A little community service never hurt anyone.

PS - Flayer - I know you're on our side, I just tend to rant on this issue - 1D20 and hope I roll a 17 or better to evade your wrath.

No need for the saving throw. I fully understand your point, and I had not thought of the things we do for veterans. On the other hand, I can understand the reasoning behind the court's decision.

I do think we should protect this most hallowed of military decorations. I am sure there is a way the law could be written to protect our heroes - there are clever lawyers out there.

Personally, I think people that claim to have the Medal and do not should be used as mine clearing "volunteers", but I suppose that's not politically correct.