Slaying of Army veteran shocks friends

[ksanftleben]

There's got to be more to this story.

Man shot by police was West Point grad
SUMMERLIN COSTCO STORE: Slaying of Army veteran shocks friends

R/Kurt

[gunderwood]

Politically this one is a nightmare. Do you support the troops or the LEO?

[allingeneral]

Politically this one is a nightmare. Do you support the troops or the LEO?

Regardless of what was seen by the "witnesses" - the only witness accounts that will matter in this case are those of the LEO's involved. Since there were three of them, they have more than enough "backup" to make their account of the incident stick.

I would hate to think that this guy pulled on them. I would also hate to think that he didn't and the LEO's shot him anyway. Either way, it's a bad deal.

[Chasbo00]

Hope a security camera caught this one.

[cigarmanva]

Hope a security camera caught this one.

the only way that we will see it is if it backs up the cops story, so no we will never see it. Of course the 3 cops will cover each others asses in this case so we will never know what happened here. Now where did I put that link for body armor

[Diomed]

the only way that we will see it is if it backs up the cops story, so no we will never see it. Of course the 3 cops will cover each others asses in this case so we will never know what happened here. Now where did I put that link for body armor

Your cynicism is warranted; however, if there's someone with access to the tapes with an axe to grind, the tapes will see the light of day.

That's just how things work.

[WRW]

Well, it happened in L.A. I guess. Isn't that where a detective advocated shooting anyone open carrying?

One witness in the article did state that he lifted his shirt...That doesn't mean that he was drawing his weapon but it would add to the confusion.

At this point it sounds like someone in the store saw a gun or its print and called the police. They had weapons drawn as he left the store (he probably didn't even know why the store was being emptied). Cops holler "drop it" so he reaches to comply. That is, of course, subject to change as more info becomes available.

[Chasbo00]

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/ju ... -shooting/


Below is from the comments section:


"I am a friend of the girlfriend of the man that was shot. Although I was not there. The information that I was told was that they entered Costco looking for camping supplies. They man wasn't destroying any merchandise. An associate saw the mans weapon and told him that fire arms were not allowed in the store. The man responded to the associate that he was with the military and that he had his concealed weapons permit. The associate then walked away. Another customer had walked up to them stating the store was being evacuated. Shocked, the man and his girlfriend looked at each other and the man said "you don't think that their evacuating the store because of me?" His girlfriend responded "I don't think so" He then said to her, "lets go, I'm going to put my fire arm in the car." They proceeded to walk out to the car and the man was told to put his hands up. He did. The man and his girlfriend were screaming to the police officers that "he was with the military and had a permit for the fire arms." They also were screaming "don't shoot!" The man then went to lift his shirt up, NOT remove his gun, and he was shot three times from different officers and killed. I was not there however, this is what was I was told. They cuffed him and never tried to help the man after he was shot.
It's a touchy situation. The gentleman made a fatal mistake if in fact he moved his arms at all after they told him to put his hands up. It is to my understanding that this man had no intentions of dying in Costco that day,or suicide by cop, nor did he ever threaten anyone or destroy any property in Costco. They were simply walking out with the rest of the crowd wondering what was going on.
Shooting a man two more times after being down after the first shot is disturbing to me. Opening fire like that in a parking lot where others could have been killed is also disturbing. I respect the police and realize they risk their lives each and everyday.The man and his girlfriend were screaming "don't shoot!"Did the associate who spoke to the man report to the police when he called 911 that the gentleman stated he was with the military and had a concealed weapons license? If not, shame on him. A man serves our country,comes home safe and then is killed bymetro. Why the hell would this guy walk out of the store if he was in there to shoot to kill? Or for that fact create a hostage situation? Like I say to all my friends, "If you get pulled over in this town, never reach for your glovebox to take out your information. Keep your hands on the wheel or out the window when the officer approaches your car. You might get shot." My heart goes out to the family."

[LFS]

If the store employee misrepresented Scott's behavior to the police, then that guy needs to be arrested and tried for manslaughter -- having given false information to the police that directly led to this man's death.

[cigarmanva]

the only way that we will see it is if it backs up the cops story, so no we will never see it. Of course the 3 cops will cover each others asses in this case so we will never know what happened here. Now where did I put that link for body armor

Your cynicism is warranted; however, if there's someone with access to the tapes with an axe to grind, the tapes will see the light of day.

That's just how things work.

yes, tapes never get 'lost' or 'taped over by accident' or 'misplaced'. I doubt these tapes will ever been seen by anyone again, all that happened now is one less reason to trust cops.

[WRW]

Apologies for my error. Vegas, not L.A.

[baz]

WAIT, police said that Scott had drawn his weapon. Yet, some witnesses said that he had not. This sounds like they may be covering up their mistakes. I hate how some cops deem it appropriate to protect themselves for their mistakes rather than face the consequences for their faults (I am not saying I know that is the case for this horrible tragedy). I hope the truth of this awful event comes to light.

[SgtBill]

There are so many problems with this whole situation from the very start that I can't make any statement on this without seeing EVERYTHING that can be seen or speaking with all partys involved. Did the Police screw up, I don't know. Did the deceased screw up, I also don't know. With several witnesses the investigator got several diffrent story's. This is normal in a shooting situation the same as tunnel vision takes over with most cop's when they are forced into shooting some one. I spent several hours talking to the chief County Attorney about tunnel vision to be able to convince him that it in fact can and will happen to most LEO's when involved in a shooting.

To sum it up I can't answere the question,
Bill

[Chasbo00]

Those of us who carry should pay close attention to this one. Although tragic, there will likely be some key lessons learned that may keep one of us from ending up like Scott.

[baz]

To sum it up I can't answere the question,
Bill

One thing for sure, don't ever reach for your gun or even point at it when LEO has you at gunpoint. Why someone would be held at gunpoint (by LEO) and take their gun out doesn't make sense to me. Agreeing with SgtBill, yes we cannot make a correct judgment without all the facts, but I hope the three police are not trying to cover up any faults.

[BluemontGlock]

One of the issues we have is that due to the nature of our system...you can expect the police invovled to do no less, the criminal in my mind is the store employee, who overreacted and caused the entire situation...

but, The truth lies with who gets paid off...OR doesn't take the money to go take the system to court...

and it sounds like, as usual, a 100 things went wrong perfectly to create this nightmare...the store employee, the cops response, the action of the victim... = a tragedy.

SA folks,..be aware of a situation that is forming...if the reponse to the article are correct, he EVEN sensed that the situation was forming, and STILL he was a victim...I believe, as a Vet, he carried to protect himself and those he cared for, only to die because if it...

I think chasbo hits the point that there is alot to learn from this... alot... things like, the police are going to do anything and everything to go home tonight, even if you are not...i do not say this as a detraction, simply a state of fact...they know they are in dangerous work, and will pull weapons first. they will fire first, asking questions later...they will always attempt to control every situation. this is what they are trained to do..if you get them into systematic mode, and give them a reason, they WILL shoot you, and figure out if they were justified to do so after the fact...That is how they go home in one piece every night. it is not wrong, it is the way it is. We can debate higher morality and sense of duty until we are blue, at the end of the day police officers are humans with the same survial instincts and higher degrees of training..and if you are going to carry, best to acknowledge the way it is...as rightly or wrongly, this man is dead, and his family gets to live with the fact that he was gunned down by police officers...put your own family in that poisition,..yep , no right answers...and if you are dead and gone, you cannot protect those that you love...

We talk about situations, this is a great one to review in your mind, "What would I do to not end up with the same result..."

and again, ....Everyone who shows up, is not there to help,

Now be smart, Apply this knowledge to your future affairs,...
Carry On...Do good things!

[gunderwood]

Who says you don't need body armor?

http://www.bulletproofme.com/ProMAX_Vests.shtml

[zephyp]

WAIT, police said that Scott had drawn his weapon. Yet, some witnesses said that he had not. This sounds like they may be covering up their mistakes. I hate how some cops deem it appropriate to protect themselves for their mistakes rather than face the consequences for their faults (I am not saying I know that is the case for this horrible tragedy). I hope the truth of this awful event comes to light.

Obviously you didnt read the first post.The truth did come to light as reported by the media...

Seriously, how many people merely read the news on this one and walk away telling their friends about another right wing nut with a gun that went berserk...

[baz]

WAIT, police said that Scott had drawn his weapon. Yet, some witnesses said that he had not. This sounds like they may be covering up their mistakes. I hate how some cops deem it appropriate to protect themselves for their mistakes rather than face the consequences for their faults (I am not saying I know that is the case for this horrible tragedy). I hope the truth of this awful event comes to light.

Obviously you didnt read the first post.The truth did come to light as reported by the media...

Seriously, how many people merely read the news on this one and walk away telling their friends about another right wing nut with a gun that went berserk...

Your statements does not make sense to me. I read the post and others online. Perhaps you read too much into my statement. Either way, congrats on your 7000+ posts.

[zephyp]

WAIT, police said that Scott had drawn his weapon. Yet, some witnesses said that he had not. This sounds like they may be covering up their mistakes. I hate how some cops deem it appropriate to protect themselves for their mistakes rather than face the consequences for their faults (I am not saying I know that is the case for this horrible tragedy). I hope the truth of this awful event comes to light.

Obviously you didnt read the first post.The truth did come to light as reported by the media...

Seriously, how many people merely read the news on this one and walk away telling their friends about another right wing nut with a gun that went berserk...

Your statements does not make sense to me. I read the post and others online. Perhaps you read too much into my statement. Either way, congrats on your 7000+ posts.

I was being sarcastic. The point is that many folks merely see the reported news, take it at face value and walk away thinking it is indeed the truth. Thankfully, many of us know better.