Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Today (Saturday) at the gunshow in Mechanicsville a vendor was selling Del-ton complete lowers, a flat top 16 inch upper, a case, and 1 magazine (30 round) for $675. I was tempted to pick one up as I have never seen an AR15 new for that price. The only thing missing was the sights.

Does anyone have any experience with Del-Ton? I can't find anything bad about them on the internet. Should I be kicking my self for not picking one up?

From what I read they are considered good but their seems to be mixed opinions on their customer service and shipping habits,,, A lot of bitching about late shipments ,, lousy communication etc: the guns and parts seem to be liked just fine

Thanks for the reply. Everything I've read looks like they are a quality AR.

A quality AR for $675? I wouldn't count on it. At the very least it cuts some corners compared to milspec. 10 years ago the military was paying about that price (this kind of info is inherently unreliable and is passed by word of mouth) for their Colts. I don't know what they are paying these days, but I don't think you can get a milspec AR for anywhere near what the military pays for them in bulk.

A good plinker and range toy, they probably work fine. However, as a defensive gun or something for hard use/SHTF, I don't think so. You can't get close to true milspec until you reach around $1k these days. Above that you can get enhanced features above and beyond milspec.

Why do you want one?

Massad Ayoob says:
"Del-Ton Incorporated (DTI) makes this rifle, the cheapest new AR15 author would be comfortable owning. Prices start in mid-$700 retail range."
and
"The lowest price I’ve seen on a good quality AR15 is in the mid-$700 range, from Del-Ton, Inc."

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob116.html

Ayoob is a good guy. You don't have to agree with him, but usually his preferences are well thought out. I don't know if you saw this, but it gives you an idea of how manufacturers reduce costs:

http://vagunforum.net/post50621.html?hi ... pec#p50621

Mil-Spec comes into play when you want to trick out your AR with a bunch of after market triggers, bolts, etc. that are just as likely to fail as the originals. (If not more.)

With that being said... I know for a fact that Del-Tons will accept an RRA trigger just fine.

$675 is a good price these days, considering they are $750 direct:
http://www.del-ton.com/DTI_16_Carbine_R ... th16-0.htm

During the 2009 "Great Gun Buy" they were running for $850 and up. So obviously the price is effected by supply and demand, and I'd go even further to say that the price has nothing to do with the level of quality of their rifles. You're not getting an upper tier AR, but they are a good buy in my opinion.

TheGearGuy wrote:Mil-Spec comes into play when you want to trick out your AR with a bunch of after market triggers, bolts, etc. that are just as likely to fail as the originals. (If not more.)

With that being said... I know for a fact that Del-Tons will accept an RRA trigger just fine.

$675 is a good price these days, considering they are $750 direct:
http://www.del-ton.com/DTI_16_Carbine_R ... th16-0.htm

During the 2009 "Great Gun Buy" they were running for $850 and up. So obviously the price is effected by supply and demand, and I'd go even further to say that the price has nothing to do with the level of quality of their rifles. You're not getting an upper tier AR, but they are a good buy in my opinion.

No, they all make them to to be interchangeable. Milspec is what the military speced, nothing more. The military speced certain thing that may not be of value to a target gun. Other times, it is because the military is too cheap to put a $270 trigger in every M4/M16. The standard trigger works fine, but it is awful compare to a nice one. Some of the steps require special tools (magnetic partial inspection) and others are just labor. E.g.

1. Shot peened bolt: Makes for a stronger bolt
2. HTI/MPI Bolt/Barrel: Some only do this to batches, some not at all. Milspec requires it be done to every one that leaves the factory.
3. Properly stacked gas key.
4. Parkerize under FSB: Cost more and takes more time to do them separately, but keeps rust from forming under the FSB.
5. Stacked castle nut: makes sure the reciever tube can't come loose.
6. Etc.

A good list is here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... utput=html

Just because a manufacturer doesn't do the full milspec doesn't mean they are bad. It simply means they cut corners from the full milspec process, usually to save money and offer a good gun at a lower cost. Most of the things that they don't do are labor/tool intensive for no return on a target gun. E.g. High pressure testing a bolt/barrel and then a magnetic partial test. Since some barrels/bolts fail the test, they throw them out. A lower cost manufacturer would ship them because they never tested them.

One of the few proprietary things is barrel nuts/rails. That RRA trigger will fit in any AR lower I know of except the old colts with the wrong pin sizes (they changed them on the semiauto version vice the original .154" pins).

From what I've gathered, DTI/Del-Ton is a good value AR but don't pay too much for it. Quality is fine, but if you can find another mid-tier AR (RRA, Stag, something with more name recognition) for the same price, I'd go with the "name" brand. But if you can find DTI's for a good price they're fine. I saw some overpriced DTI lowers at the last Nation's Gun show I went to, and I almost got suckered into one until I saw some people selling better brands at lower prices.