Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Maybe I missed a post from VCDL...

Did Castle Doctrine, "no duty to retreat", "stand your ground", and protection from civil suit after justified self-defense ever come up in the GA? Anyone know what, if anything, happened to these efforts?

Do I need to fire up MS-Word and send some letters to my "representatives"?

Yeah it came up in both houses and crashed and burned when the chief Demojerk in charge decided to break the rules and stack his sub committees with anti gun morons,For most votes they didn;t even stay in the room, Just left their proxy for the list of NO's while they hung out at the coffee machine.

VBshooter wrote:Yeah it came up in both houses and crashed and burned when the chief Demojerk in charge decided to break the rules and stack his sub committees with anti gun morons,For most votes they didn;t even stay in the room, Just left their proxy for the list of NO's while they hung out at the coffee machine.

Maybe next year...

As good a chance as any other,, What we really need is to get the Senate filled with more Pro Gun reps...As of now it;s still an anti gun majority there that sometimes will vote in our favor ,,,but sadly also submit some of the worst legislation that you'll ever see, and even sadder is some of that tripe gets voted in and sent to the governor,,

What we really need is someone in power to stand up to these illegal activites in the state government and smack them down...why should we have to wait and try to stack the deck in our favor. What they did was illegaland someone at the state level should have stopped it...

zephyp wrote:What we really need is someone in power to stand up to these illegal activites in the state government and smack them down...why should we have to wait and try to stack the deck in our favor. What they did was illegaland someone at the state level should have stopped it...

You have to accept the system is rigged. Once you accept it, it'll make more sense and you'll be happier.

The system is rigged but that dont mean I have to accept it. Thats part of the reason we're in trouble now. People merely shrugging their shoulders and saying oh well.

If our founders had done that then we'd all be speaking the King's english while sipping tea every day at 4.

True and truer,,I wonder just how many gun owners got off their asses and actually tried to do something about the screwing we got due to one over zealous pinhead in power. I did my fair share of protesting and what really frosted my butt was the lack of responses from many in office who should have done something other than say" That's the way it is" . That went from the Governors office down to the Senate minority and majority leaders, I agree fully that WE don;t have to stand for it but many more are gonna have to get in the game and stop letting others pull that ring in their nose when they need their attention. This last election should have been an eye opener for many.. Just because we did well in getting our supported candidates elected there is a lot of work to do yet. Simply relying on gun groups like VCDL.NRA etc to do all the leg work isn't gonna cut it.. Each and every one of us needs to focus 100% on the gun legislation we want enacted and not rely on the other guy to take care of it instead of getting involved ourselves.

That was total crap what they pulled in the last GA...the "special committees" were total aberations of poltical process and the fact the McDonell and my friend K-k-k-ken didn;t pass a small furry farm animal right in the middle of the general assembly is the other travesty of justice...

Who has the quote in their signature that has something like "the only requirement for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" ?

case in point...


This is one of those " 'lest we forget " situations....

Diomed wrote:

zephyp wrote:What we really need is someone in power to stand up to these illegal activites in the state government and smack them down...why should we have to wait and try to stack the deck in our favor. What they did was illegaland someone at the state level should have stopped it...

You have to accept the system is rigged. Once you accept it, it'll make more sense and you'll be happier.

NO! The Founding Fathers didn't accept that notion, and I won't either! I don't know why neither McDonnell nor Cuccinelli had Saslaw and Marsh arrested for violation of Virginia law. I wish they would have. Neither of them should be allowed to serve in a political office after the stunt that they pulled. And that's true no matter what political party they're members of.

So why didn't someone like McDonnell or Cuccinelli actually smack them down?

CowboyT wrote:

Diomed wrote:

zephyp wrote:What we really need is someone in power to stand up to these illegal activites in the state government and smack them down...why should we have to wait and try to stack the deck in our favor. What they did was illegaland someone at the state level should have stopped it...

You have to accept the system is rigged. Once you accept it, it'll make more sense and you'll be happier.

NO! The Founding Fathers didn't accept that notion, and I won't either! I don't know why neither McDonnell nor Cuccinelli had Saslaw and Marsh arrested for violation of Virginia law. I wish they would have. Neither of them should be allowed to serve in a political office after the stunt that they pulled. And that's true no matter what political party they're members of.

So why didn't someone like McDonnell or Cuccinelli actually smack them down?

CowboyT, you're right! Most of them expected us to pick up our guns and pitchforks to take care of those bums!

People are always making comments about how the founders wouldn't recognize the country today and how far we have fallen from those ideals. So let me see if I have this straight:

1. The country isn't what the contract says it is suppose to be. It is broke, corrupt and no longer serves the people; we serve it.
2. The founders philosophy says we have a right to institute a new government when the current one doesn't work any more.
3. The founders did institute a new government.
4. They ensured we would have the means to institute a new one if we wanted and recommended we do so if needed.

I'm just following the line of thought...

@gunerwood - so true but now we have become a country of laws - several dozen which preclude your line of thought or conversion to action...this has become "no country for those desiring to see the Constitution trump established law..."

Yes, we can argue whether or not these laws are Constitutional...the problem is when you violate any law you are subject to penalty and prosecution regardless of the constitutionality. That gets figured out by courts while you share space with someone you would rather not...

Maybe the teaparty will march on the state capitol and physically remove by force, these scoundrels.....







........or in that case would our benevolent "representatives" initiate martial law? on the grounds of "preserving order"?

Order, meaning pecking order, them at the top and commoners at the bottom,perpetually.....

zephyp wrote:@gunerwood - so true but now we have become a country of laws - several dozen which preclude your line of thought or conversion to action...this has become "no country for those desiring to see the Constitution trump established law..."

Yes, we can argue whether or not these laws are Constitutional...the problem is when you violate any law you are subject to penalty and prosecution regardless of the constitutionality. That gets figured out by courts while you share space with someone you would rather not...

I know. I was just pointing out the obvious, but impractical. It woudn't get sorted out in the courts either though. The vast majority of people believe the government is the final word, that the SCOTUS decisions are final. Thomas Jefferson had a different idea (if you read my how wise post from last night):

Resolved, That the several states composing the United States of America are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their general government; but that, by compact, under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States, and of amendments thereto, they constituted a general government for special purposes, delegated to that government certain definite powers, reserving, each state to itself, the residuary mass of right to their own self-government; and that whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force; that to this compact each state acceded as a state, and is an integral party; that this government, created by this compact, was not made the exclusive or final judge of the extent of the powers delegated to itself, since that would have made its discretion, and not the Constitution, the measure of its powers; but that, as in all other cases of compact among powers having no common judge, each party has an equal right to judge for itself, as well of infractions as of the mode and measure of redress.

GS78 wrote:Maybe the teaparty will march on the state capitol and physically remove by force, these scoundrels.....







........or in that case would our benevolent "representatives" initiate martial law? on the grounds of "preserving order"?

Order, meaning pecking order, them at the top and commoners at the bottom,perpetually.....

Nah, they wouldn't even dump those tea bags they collected with out the government issued permit.

gunderwood wrote:

GS78 wrote:Maybe the teaparty will march on the state capitol and physically remove by force, these scoundrels.....







........or in that case would our benevolent "representatives" initiate martial law? on the grounds of "preserving order"?

Order, meaning pecking order, them at the top and commoners at the bottom,perpetually.....

Nah, they wouldn't even dump those tea bags they collected with out the government issued permit.

I know. I was being sarcastic, again. The truth is more likely that the GOP has gained a foothold into the national tea party in an effort at triangulation. It is true that any attempt at installing a new form of government, or simply returning to the original idea according to the constitution , will only get the patriots who try it, hung.

@gunderwood - I did indeed read it...good stuff too. Too bad we cant just write something like that now and throw it towards DC and watch it stick...aint gonna happen though...cause we sat back on our collective laurels for too long and now we be prisoners if you will...in a gilded cage...and not alot of folks really care as long as things dont hit close to home or pocketbook or back yard...

Its somewhat comforting to know there are folks out there that care not only about their own freedoms and rights but those of all citizens and our country and the Constitution...and the future of our country.

Greetings Fellow Patriots and Freedom Lovers!

I just returned from extensive travels in California and I am glad to be back in mostly "gun friendly" Virginia. I realize this thread is a little old, but since I've been gone traveling, please indulge me and allow me to jump back in again on this issue.

A few weeks back, I posted a suggested "castle and stand" law in this forum for Virginia which would hopefully cover all the issues we have been discussing. I sent a copy of this to President Van Cleave of our VCDL and a personal letter and a copy of the proposed "castle and stand" law to Senator Mark Obsenshain who has been making a lot of noise lately regarding our freedoms. I didn't hear anything from Mr. Obenshain, but I asked Mr. Van Cleave if he could help find a sponsor for this proposal in the GA for the next session. I told Mr. Van Cleave I would get back to him in early September when I came back from Italy.

A couple of days ago, I received a letter from the "NRA-ILA" director, Mr. Chris Cox, regarding a proposed NRA-ILA ""initiative" for a "castle and stand" law here in the Commonwealth and perhaps other states as well. Since the NRA-ILA is a national agency, I assume the proposed "castle and stand" initiatives would be for the many states that don't have these laws, thus this is probably a major, nationwide effort. Anyway, I sat down and wrote a personal letter to Mr. Cox and attached a copy of the "castle and stand" law proposal that I drafted for Virginia. I would like to hear what Mr. Cox has to advise, however, I don't expect to hear back from him directly and I am hoping he'll delegate this to a subordinate in his office. Since I also sent a substantial sum of cash for a contribution, I am hoping at least he may give me a response (?)

Meanwhile some other smelly stuff has arisen with the NRA which I won't comment on now since it's beyond the scope of this issue, but I see where they have been busy "clarifying" themselves on the "Disclose Act" issue for which they have been accused of a wholesale "sellout". And, there looks to be some truth to that as well which I find very distressing!

I think we would do well to consult with Mr. Van Cleave on this matter and take some very well-founded and expert guidance from him and our VCDL. We will need to find a very gun-friendly, powerful and freedom loving legislator to help us ram this through the Assembly in the next session this fall. It's worth a try!

As far as what Senators Marsh, Saslaw and others pulled on us in the last session, the only item I can remember being killed by the so-called "Death Star" Committee that related directly to liability was a House bill that would have granted immmunity from civil process if a law-abiding citizen used his weapon in justified self-defense. We don't even have that much to go on now. A sad state of affairs for all of us!

Who wants to help me go to work on this?

Most respectfully yours,

Albert

albertshank wrote:Who wants to help me go to work on this?

I'm certainly not in a position to speak for anyone here but myself. That said, I would have to guess that nearly everyone here would support such a measure - just a lot of people who don't know exactly what must be done or what they can do to help.

It's been made abundantly clear over the past years that contacting representatives will do absolutely no good whatsoever. The idiots in power will vote however they please with absolutely no regard for how their constituents (read: "The people they work for") feel about it. Unfortunately, the same applies to both Dems and the GOP.

Of course, that's why VGOF is here to begin with. So we can discuss issues such as this and try to collectively figure out a way to make things happen along-side VCDL and other like-minded organizations in Virginia.

Keep your powder dry!

Albert,

Kudos to you for taking this on and welcome home. Since you seem to be the point person I suggest you come up with a plan of action and assosciated tasks. Then folks here on the board could pick things they would be willing to do. If you like I can help you craft something. PM me if interested.

dk