Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Hello all,

I know that until July 1st 2010 we cannot carry concealed in places that server alcohol, but open carry is legal there.

My question is that if I'm wearing an inside the waistband holster (IWB) and then just tuck my shirt behind gun/holster so that basically the top half of the gun is viewable, is that considered "open" or still concealed since the bottom half of the gun is still inside my waist?

Thanks!

I found good information here. Click on the link to see the information; it even has pictures to show as examples.

http://vaguninfo.com/pages/opencarry.htm

Thanks for the link.

ProShooter wrote:Although that is a great website, I would not stake my freedom on the info contained in it.

The Virginia Tuck concept has been hotly debated for a long time. There is no clear cut answer as Virginia Tuck is not a rule of law. As a former LEO, and now a civilian who CC's daily, I could see it viewed either way. I always advise my students that if you need to OC, do it in a dedicated OC holster to avoid that grey area.

Thanks, that's what I was thinking as well. Having half the gun inside the waistband would seem to be a grey area that could go either way I would think as well.

wtownsend81 wrote:Hello all,

I know that until July 1st 2010 we cannot carry concealed in places that server alcohol, but open carry is legal there.

My question is that if I'm wearing an inside the waistband holster (IWB) and then just tuck my shirt behind gun/holster so that basically the top half of the gun is viewable, is that considered "open" or still concealed since the bottom half of the gun is still inside my waist?

Thanks!

That's how I carry mine and have never had a problem. Just make sure it's identifiable as a gun if someone looks at it.

The Virginia Tuck is the way I carry basicly all the time. I have not had any problem. covered or not.

wtownsend81 wrote:

ProShooter wrote:Although that is a great website, I would not stake my freedom on the info contained in it.

The Virginia Tuck concept has been hotly debated for a long time. There is no clear cut answer as Virginia Tuck is not a rule of law. As a former LEO, and now a civilian who CC's daily, I could see it viewed either way. I always advise my students that if you need to OC, do it in a dedicated OC holster to avoid that grey area.

Thanks, that's what I was thinking as well. Having half the gun inside the waistband would seem to be a grey area that could go either way I would think as well.

especially when the gun is in an IWB holster which is advertised as a "concealment holster". I used to work with any number of saavy prosecutors who would rip that Virginia Tuck thing to shreds, and a number of judges who would totally agree with them.

I value Jim's opinion on everything but this. I dont see anything wrong with wearing an IWB and tucking to carry open. Nothing in the code that specifies holster. It only defines concealed versus unconcealed and I think the language is relatively clear on that. It would be hard for any decent (or indecent) attorney to argue that someone was trying to disguise the true nature of a handgun in an IWB holster while executing a proper VA tuck...just my $0.02...

The key question is: Is it clearly identifiable as a firearm? The law defines open carry as "Not hidden from common observation" - which is further defined:

a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

So, I carry in an IWB holster - I tuck when I must. Enough of my firearm is showing that it is clearly identifiable as a firearm when I OC this way.

zephyp wrote:I value Jim's opinion on everything but this. I dont see anything wrong with wearing an IWB and tucking to carry open. Nothing in the code that specifies holster.

But here is what you are missing. When we discuss the Virginia Tuck, we talk about it in terms that we know, meaning how our gun displays in our holster. That is what we have from our own individual personal experience. Not every gun has the same grip, nor does every IWB holster hold a gun in the same manner. Some sit higher, or lower. That is where the problem area is. There is not a level playing field in regards to handguns and IWB holsters

zephyp wrote:It would be hard for any decent (or indecent) attorney to argue that someone was trying to disguise the true nature of a handgun in an IWB holster while executing a proper VA tuck...just my $0.02..

Consider this though...you are basing your answer on intent - the intent of the carrier in trying to conceal the gun. 18.2-308 speaks nothing of intent. There is no phrasing of "carrying with the intent to hide from common observation". We often see that intent line in so many other statutes, not this one. The violation simply occurs when the gun is hidden from common observation. I have seen some holsters that sit so low in the pants that only about 2 inches of the gun is visible. If I have my shirt tucked in, I can tell you that it is pulled out at least 2 inches. Therein lies the danger zone for someone. Not based on their intent, but a violation may occur simply by bending over or sitting down.


Why run the risk? It is a slippery slope.

I hear ya Jim, but that presupposes that every time I wear an IWB with or without a shirt I'm intending to conceal. Most IWBs I've seen (and the ones I have) show clear gun profile above the waist. Therefore if you tuck then its pretty hard to mistake it for anything other than a gun.

Now having said all that, in this day and age with all these twit moron liberal judges and lawyers yeah I can see how anyone open carrying a HG -- no matter how they do it -- could get busted and be found guilty for a CC charge...

I know of a guy that was busted for conceal carry without a permit. When it went to court the judge asked the cop how he knew the guy was carrying. Cop replied " I could see the gun." Judge replied " CASE DISMISSED."

We need more judges like that. Common sense makes great sense.

Vahunter wrote:I know of a guy that was busted for conceal carry without a permit. When it went to court the judge asked the cop how he knew the guy was carrying. Cop replied " I could see the gun." Judge replied " CASE DISMISSED."

Wonder if he got a Christmas card that year? +1 for good judges.

Vahunter wrote:I know of a guy that was busted for conceal carry without a permit. When it went to court the judge asked the cop how he knew the guy was carrying. Cop replied " I could see the gun." Judge replied " CASE DISMISSED."

Finally, a judge with common sense!!!!!!!!!

Vahunter wrote:I know of a guy that was busted for conceal carry without a permit. When it went to court the judge asked the cop how he knew the guy was carrying. Cop replied " I could see the gun." Judge replied " CASE DISMISSED."

Smart judge -- dumb cop...