Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

To make a short story long...

DMV sent notice that I had to come in for a vision test to renew my Operators Permit. Ok, well, I suppose I am getting to the age where the Commonwealth has an obligation to make sure I'm not too blind to drive in public.

So I'm sitting for a new photo, flash the pearly whites, clerk flashes the camera, done, right? Wrong. No smiling allowed! We do it again. Nope, still too many teeth showing. Clerk instructs me to keep my mouth closed, lips together. Like a mug shot. Those are the rules.

What gives? In talking with others about my experience, I find it is old news, has been that way for some time, but why?

My guess - smiling messes with the facial recognition algorithm. All the drivers license photo's are stored in a statewide (federal?) (Interpol?) database, where they are analyzed and indexed. Couple the exponential increases in computer processing power with the proliferation of public securty cameras, and in less than ten years Big Brother's network will automagically track individuals' movements from door-to-door in real-time, said movements becoming part of YOUR permanent record. Now factor in the knowledge that your CHP is already tied in to your DMV record. Who do you think they'll be watching?

Or am I just being paranoid?

Regards,

George

Actually, there's an easier reason.

They want your picture to match what your face will look like when the cop pulls you over..

Who says I don't smile when I roll down my window?

I got pulled over this weekend on Route 17 headed toward Norfolk. I though I was getting a speeding ticket. Cop came to the window and asked me "Let me see your license, registration and radar detector".

I was like "What?! I don't have a radar detector in here!"

Cop: Is that a Sirius radio on your dash?
Me: Yes
Cop: Sometimes those things set off my detector. Sorry for slowing you down - have a nice day.

It was the shortest and sweetest traffic stop I've ever seen. Ask me if I was smiling!

gfost1 wrote:To make a short story long...

DMV sent notice that I had to come in for a vision test to renew my Operators Permit. Ok, well, I suppose I am getting to the age where the Commonwealth has an obligation to make sure I'm not too blind to drive in public.

So I'm sitting for a new photo, flash the pearly whites, clerk flashes the camera, done, right? Wrong. No smiling allowed! We do it again. Nope, still too many teeth showing. Clerk instructs me to keep my mouth closed, lips together. Like a mug shot. Those are the rules.

What gives? In talking with others about my experience, I find it is old news, has been that way for some time, but why?

My guess - smiling messes with the facial recognition algorithm. All the drivers license photo's are stored in a statewide (federal?) (Interpol?) database, where they are analyzed and indexed. Couple the exponential increases in computer processing power with the proliferation of public securty cameras, and in less than ten years Big Brother's network will automagically track individuals' movements from door-to-door in real-time, said movements becoming part of YOUR permanent record. Now factor in the knowledge that your CHP is already tied in to your DMV record. Who do you think they'll be watching?

Or am I just being paranoid?

Regards,

George

well I am with you on this one(I have an extra hat if you need one). Every structure in the country is already "blipped" with its own GPS signature, why not the inhabitants too......thats how FEMA can go into an area like Fla after Andrew, when thousand sof homes were completely destroyed and whole neighborhoods were actually "missing", they just find a point, get the GPS, cross check the info with other agencies, like the census , and they know exactly how many bodies to look for in exactly what spot they "should be in"......

Indiana did a similar thing a couple of years ago and yes its for facial recognition in a national database. No glasses, no smile, no hats, etc... Its a wonder they let the women wear makeup...

I was smiling on the old ones, the new ones they're quite serious about the whole no emotion thing.

Username wrote:I was smiling on the old ones, the new ones they're quite serious about the whole no emotion thing.

well looking at your avatar, I am shocked they even let you get in front of the camera......


I have a brother who lives in upstate NY by the canadian border, he was telling me about the NY state "enhanced" drivers license.....it has a computer chip in it that has all your info stored on it..........you know, to make it "easier" for you to cross international borders.......... gives me the willys.......

I think its because smiling is an unnatural expression and it can change key features of your face. Some people squint when they smile, others get dimples, and i know there are other things that change, I just can't think of them. I think it all comes back to facial recognition, the software can supposedly read a face if it has an expressionless face to go off of.

Does that mean if you smile while robbing a bank, you won't be identified?

I have face recognition on my laptop for login credentials and it rarely reads my face well enough for it to allow me to login that way.

So frown, and raise an eyebrow subtly. See if that throws them off.

If they're doing it so they can make a positive ID for Po-po? They should have me frowning with an eyebrow raised.

Yeah, We're GETTING to "Big Brother", but the U.K. is already there, and camped out! The movie "V for Vendetta" according to some peeps over in the U.K. is pretty close to reality in some cases!

I'm with GS78

yea...sign me up for a reflective yet somewhat flimsy shiney hat...

Yep....

It's funny that the "tin foil hat" joke that has been invoked here is actually related to a solution to one of the issues raised.

Not the hat part, but as far as IDs/DLs/passports with RFID chips in them goes, wrapping them in tin foil is, as I understand it, a viable way to keep them from being read.

The problem with RFID technology is that, as scary as "Big Brother" may be, he's not the scariest player in town, and there's nothing to say he's the only one who can read it. RFID readers aren't expensive and can read data off of chips up to about 30 feet away.

One scenario I heard tossed around after the introduction of RFID chips in American passports was this: Imagine a terrorist somewhere overseas who wants to target Americans. It theoretically wouldn't be difficult to rig an explosive to an RFID reader that scanned the passports of passersby. Since your nationality is obviously one piece of information stored on your passport, the first American tourist whose pocketed passport was scanned by the device...

A more immediate, day-to-day concern is plain old identity theft. They say your DMV "Customer ID Number" is as sensitive or more so than your SSN these days. So what happens when that number gets coded onto a chip embedded in your DL which can be read remotely as you walk or drive down the street?

I'm gonna go put my tin foil hat back on...

No, it isn't paranoid because they are actually building a facial recognition database. It isn't a secret, but they don't like to to talk about it either.

Edit: The technology isn't perfect, but why wait until it is to start collecting the information? Besides a lot of the algorithms need training sets...

The facial recognition aspect is not tin foil hattery. It's well enough documented from multiple sources...

Rumson wrote:The facial recognition aspect is not tin foil hattery. It's well enough documented from multiple sources...

Indeed. Software has been around for a few years that can search and match images. Nothing but plain ole American know-how and ingenuity with that one...

Many years ago, the VA Beach PD placed facial recognition cameras along the boardwalk. It worked so poorly that Osama Bin Laden himself could have visited the oceanfront undetected (maybe he did).

They quietly removed the cameras and it's associated technology without as much as one wanted person apprehended.

However, I hear this technology works very well in the casinos of Las Vegas, protecting us from card counters and pick-pockets.

Grabbing a picture from someone walking by a camera and then trying to compare it to stored images is kinda like trying to read someone's t-shirt as they ride by on a motorcycle. The technology isnt that good yet...