Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I have owned a Chinese import 20 gauge side by side coach gun for quite some time now. I am now looking to give my old bedside companion a modern lift by taking the barrel way down, shorter than 18 inches. I've done a lot of reading on the obligations of Class Three weapon ownership, but I was unsure of the exact process of turning a regular shotgun into a SBS. Do I simply take it to a gunsmith to get the barrels cut and send my form and tax away or do I need a specific gunsmith to do Class Three work? Also, could anyone point me towards the most current copy of the paperwork I need to fill out? Thank you all for your time.

-Jeff

I see that you do not own any pistol's by what you list with your profile. Do I take it that you are under the age of 21 and if you are then I do not think that you need a cut down home defense 20 gauge shotgun nor will you qualify for any type of a class 3 permit.
Bill

jcubeta wrote:I have owned a Chinese import 20 gauge side by side coach gun for quite some time now. I am now looking to give my old bedside companion a modern lift by taking the barrel way down, shorter than 18 inches. I've done a lot of reading on the obligations of Class Three weapon ownership, but I was unsure of the exact process of turning a regular shotgun into a SBS. Do I simply take it to a gunsmith to get the barrels cut and send my form and tax away or do I need a specific gunsmith to do Class Three work? Also, could anyone point me towards the most current copy of the paperwork I need to fill out? Thank you all for your time.

-Jeff

I know a really knowledgable guy near camp peary, williamsburg area.Pm me if you need contact info.

Just as clarification, 22 years old, with a Ruger SP101 to go with my concealed carry permit. Never did get around to updating that inventory. Further thoughts?

VA Law on Sawed off Shotguns: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-299

As you know other Federal laws apply.

Here's a question for you guys: Would a person who either cut his own gun down or who had a smith cut it down then be the "Manufacturer"? I thought that's how it worked with automatics.

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawed-off_shotgun

Shotgun World: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=80131

Get the tax stamp first. For some reason a short barrel shotgun is classified as an AOW {any other weapon} and the stamp is only $5.00 unless it went up in the past year. SBR {short barrel rifle} stamp is $200.00. I doubt if you'll a gunsmith that will cut it down before you get the stamp. Big time felony.

I can't remember the name of the outfit, but at the Hampton show, a guy had a double barrel shotgun, but it was a pistol, almost like an old pirate type weapon, but he was telling me it was a class 3 weapon..... It looked like a real handfull....

jcubeta wrote:Just as clarification, 22 years old, with a Ruger SP101 to go with my concealed carry permit. Never did get around to updating that inventory. Further thoughts?

I was not trying to bust your stones but I also would not give you any information unless I was assured that you were over 21 year's old.
Bill

jcubeta wrote:Do I simply take it to a gunsmith to get the barrels cut and send my form and tax away or do I need a specific gunsmith to do Class Three work?

Depends, do you mind having your info engraved on the gun or would you prefer having someone else's? Option one means you get to keep your gun while waiting for the stamp to come back. Option two means handing it over to a licensed manufacturer so they can register it, and then waiting for the stamp to come back so you can take your gun back home.

Also, could anyone point me towards the most current copy of the paperwork I need to fill out?

Order from ATF, it's paid for by your tax dollars: http://www.atf.gov/forms/dcof/

You'll need F1 (5320.1), get a couple copies in case you mess up and have to start over, F5320.20, get a couple of those as well, and FBI FD-258LE, the fingerprint cards.

Vahunter wrote:For some reason a short barrel shotgun is classified as an AOW {any other weapon} and the stamp is only $5.00 unless it went up in the past year.

This is a common misconception. AOWs are not short barreled shotguns. If you want to convert a shotgun, it can never* be an AOW if it's had a buttstock attached to it, because what are commonly called AOW shotguns, e.g. the Serbu Super Shorty, are more accurately designated as smoothbore pistols. Per federal law, a pistol cannot be able to be fired from the shoulder, and if there's a stock on it or there has ever been a stock on it, it's not a pistol anymore.

The ins and outs are confusing, even for those in the trade. Suffice to say, your Norinco double can't be an AOW. Even if it could it would still cost $200 to register - a Form 1 always costs $200 unless you're a police department.

MountainCat wrote:Would a person who either cut his own gun down or who had a smith cut it down then be the "Manufacturer"?

You are the maker. There is a subtle but distinct difference.

SgtBill wrote:Do I take it that you are under the age of 21 and if you are then I do not think that you need a cut down home defense 20 gauge shotgun nor will you qualify for any type of a class 3 permit.

You would be incorrect, as anyone who is otherwise not disabled may register a firearm so long as they are over eighteen. They may also acquire a registered firearm from someone in the same state who is not a dealer, same as with non-NFA firearms. The twenty-one limit only applies to FFLs.

* - You could make a shotgun into an AOW if you permanently installed a rifled barrel insert, making it a combination gun, or if you were able to disguise it as something else, like a briefcase gun.

ok this might be an old thread and i might be re-hatching old conversations, but I'm new to this forum and mainly on SgtBills account. People like him are the reason most open-carriers and firearm entusiasts get bad names. Everyone thank bill.

For starters, someone asked a question and began by saying he owned a 12 guage. Why must you ask his age and knowledge on guns to give him information on legally obtaining a short-barrelled shotgun? Dont bust his balls give him an answer, prick.

Secondly, why must you need someone to be 21 to speak with them? This is America, and we live in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Go learn something before you try and teach others. There are a few things that being 21 does for you in this state including,
1. Buying alcohol
2. Getting a federal permit for automatics, silencers, etc..
3. Obtaining a concealed weapons permit.

I am under 21 and LEGALLY own firearms. Go ask a police officer if you do not believe me, however at 18 you can legally own whatever HANDGUN/PISTOL, SHOTGUN, or ASSAULT RIFLE that you can afford. You just may not purchase them at a FFL but thats why us here in the good ol' US of A have gun shows and private person to person sales.

So instead of being a overly-cautious not helpful prick, do research and know what you are talking about or just keep your b.s to yourself please.

@Carson - welcome to VGOF and happy Monday....and a great way to start off your stay here too might I add...

That might be the best first-post ---- evah

Yup just might be that indeed!!!

Back to the original topic. Yes, I'm over 21. I have an old SxS that I got from a friend's father. Half of the barrel is rusted. I would like to cut it down past the rust, which would make the barrels 10" long. And I'd like to cut the stock off to the pistol grip. Is it safe to assume that doing so will be okay as long as I pay the $200 stamp? This is really confusing. I don't care what it's called, I'm basically asking if I pay the $200, can I make this a double-barreled pistol? Thanks.

Jim

jrswanson1 wrote:Back to the original topic. Yes, I'm over 21. I have an old SxS that I got from a friend's father. Half of the barrel is rusted. I would like to cut it down past the rust, which would make the barrels 10" long. And I'd like to cut the stock off to the pistol grip. Is it safe to assume that doing so will be okay as long as I pay the $200 stamp? This is really confusing. I don't care what it's called, I'm basically asking if I pay the $200, can I make this a double-barreled pistol? Thanks.

Jim

You will not be making a double barreled pistol since it started life as a shotgun. To answer your question in the most basic of terms...yes. However there's a lot of other stuff that has to happen.

jrswanson1 wrote:B Is it safe to assume that doing so will be okay as long as I pay the $200 stamp? This is really confusing. I don't care what it's called, I'm basically asking if I pay the $200, can I make this a double-barreled pistol? Thanks.

The short answer is that yes, you can do that.

The longer answer is that you can do it once you have applied for and received permission to do so. Depending on the breaks it can take anywhere from six weeks to six months. When you get your form back with a nice green stamp on it, you can slice 'n' dice on that gun to your heart's content. You can't make it into a pistol as such, but you can configure it like a pistol (this is called a "weapon made from a shotgun"). Looks like this:



I would suggest familiarizing yourself with the laws and procedures, as owning a NFA weapon is not like owning a regular firearm. subguns.com, sturmgewehr.com, and nfatalk.org are good places to listen and learn, or ask questions (though the first two may not be overly helpful to a newbie).

Utah and Diomed, thanks for the info. I'm seriously going to do this. Can I do this using a trust? I'm also going to do an SBR and possibly get a can or three, and I will probably be moving at the start of next year. Thanks!

Jim

jrswanson1 wrote:Utah and Diomed, thanks for the info. I'm seriously going to do this. Can I do this using a trust? I'm also going to do an SBR and possibly get a can or three, and I will probably be moving at the start of next year. Thanks!

Jim

IMHO, a trust is the preferred way. I've done several NFAs in a trust.