Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I have looked on several boards but not been able to find this discussion.
Question, I have been giving some thought as to how my Magazine is loaded. The thought, should BG just by chance grab my weapon I much rather taste a full metal than a hollow point so the first two are Ball and yes when I OC my PM9 is CC next to my AARP Card. Any thoughts?

I'd just take my chances and load up with all hollowpoints. Shoot a BG with a FMJ and it may just zip on through him with minimal damage, making him mad enough to keep coming. I like to think about CC just as I do hunting. When I shoot something I want it to drop right then,so I choose the proper bullet.

I agree with Vahunter on this one, If I have to pull a weapon and fire it at someone its meant to kill and I would rather not have to worry about my first couple rounds not being effective,

I agree with Vahunter my carry weapons are all loaded with Fed Hydra Shok's. The only time I use ball ammo or FMJ is target shooting or plinking because it's cheaper.
I like to think that I use the proper bullet for what I want to accomplish.

i carry 38 special cast lead hollowpoints. i bet they'd smoosh pretty well and they're very controllable.
in semiautos its hydrashok or magsafe.

i know what you mean about using FMJs though. if i ever had to go to court because i greased some bad guy, i'd probably have a better defense if i said i was using FMJs, the same as the military uses, rather than the big, bad, scary looking hollowpoints that are apparently used to kill cops on city streets every day. you know the BS that'd get thrown around that court room about how awful hollowpoints are.

then i think to myself, yeah, i'll load up with hollowpoints. he can't sue me if he doesn't have a pulse.

flowmaster wrote:he can't sue me if he doesn't have a pulse.

Unfortunately, he probably has family...and they can still sue the hell outta you.

There's some flak out there about using HP's, but I think that if you find yourself in that position, HP or FMJ - isn't really gonna matter in court, but could matter quite a lot when it counts at the scene.

allingeneral wrote:

flowmaster wrote:he can't sue me if he doesn't have a pulse.

Unfortunately, he probably has family...and they can still sue the hell outta you.

Didn't Virginia pass something that says if you kill a bad guy and it's determined to be a legal shoot, you cannot be sued even by family members of the deceased? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Do what you need to do to make sure you are the one shooting your gun. Then load it with as effective a load as possible (I use the heaviest weight Win Ranger T, Federal HST, or Speer Gold Dot in a given caliber). I would worry a lot more about FMJ overpenetration of the bad guy more than effective stopping of the bad guy by JHPs contained within his body.

Mixing loads is going to make the possibility of a jam much more likely I'd like to think my semi is more reliable than that but wouldn't want my gun to fail in a SHTF situation. I'll stick with my HP's and use the ball ammo for the range.

Great info, thanks. Guess we will get another box of HP

Mixing loads is going to make the possibility of a jam much more likely I'd like to think my semi is more reliable than that but wouldn't want my gun to fail in a SHTF situation. I'll stick with my HP's and use the ball ammo for the range.

While on the range, I have put ball, frangible and other mixes of ammo in. Haven't had issues, but that's for playing while on the range.

This was my first concern when reading the post. If I get a couple of shots off that only stun him, at least they stun him,. If your weapon jams, what would you do? My sig, love it to death, will jam if I put certain types of CRAPPY ammo in it. I could certainly see the potential for that happening if I mixed up the ammo.

I use all Hydra-Shok. Now I do stagger the loads in the big house gun. But that is a Shot Gun.

My first round is going to be the most accurate. It is a hollow point. The rest are 230 grain FMJ.

In my shotgun the first two are shot, and once everone is behind a table or two the next 3 are slugs.

I follow a few simple rules:

1. Before you carry know the law, especially concerning use of deadly force.
2. If you carry be ready to apply #1.
3. If you draw be ready to shoot.
4. If you shoot put the BG down for good.
5. Use ONLY commercial ammo for your defense loads.

I've read too many cases where a prosecutor used the argument that Mr Jones did not use a commercial load. He spent hours developing and loading his own personal cartridge designed to inflict maximum damage...You can see where this might lead. BTW, I use hollow point loads for defense- commercial - and FMJ - any - on the range.

Well I am new here but I must comment on this subject. I spent 25 years carrying a handgun and I trained over 10,000 people both Police and Military and a mixed load should be left to machine guns and 20 and 30 MM cannons fire. If you have the right to shoot the bad guy then you have the right to kill the bad guy and you do not have the right to have ball ammo that will over penetrate and might hit an innocent bystander. If this happens you will for sure get sued but then again you are going to get sued no matter what you do. Just make sure that you are in the right shooting the asswipe and call me as an expert witness to the trial and I will only charge you expenses. GAS/LUNCH ETC.
Bill

Bill, that's a good summary. Thanks for sharing.

Here's hoping that none of us ever have an occasion to need you as an expert witness.

don't we have the right to shoot a bg the breaks in our home?..does he/she have to be armed?..and what if he runs out after knowing I got a gun, can I shoot him/her on my property?

Unfortunatley in VA we don't have a Costle Doctrine(yet) which means that is someone breaks into your home, you're leagally only allowed to use deadly force if there no other option and you know that the person means to kill you. Now don't hold me to this, but this is how it was explained to me so I would love to be enlightened if I am wrong.

I will like to know as well..I've been shot and im not trying to get shot again..so if some breaks in my home I have to wait n c if he wants to kill me b4 I can shoot?..(no offense 2 u goodoleboy) but that's bs imo.I rather be safe than sorry..so plz somone let us know..

Yes. Here in good ole VA we are required to retreat before the bad guy. You cannot shoot someone just because they break into your house. You must be able to show that you or your family were in immediate danger and it has to be a life or limb threat. The idea that you were in fear alone without threat also puts you on very shaky ground. Also, remember that if it's determined you did indeed shoot in self defense and cleared criminally you will also probably face a civil suit. Here's some information about past cases here in VA. The first is from the VA courts system. The second is VCDL, a trusted source and gun rights advocate for Virginia gun owners.

www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavwp/1329072.pdf
http://www.vcdl.org/pdf/Virginia-self-defense-cases.pdf