The Beginning...or the End??

[zephyp]

Read it and weep...here it comes. The BATFE looks to close the gun show "loop hole" in central TX...rumor has it that same thing is happening right now in TN. Looking for credible news story...

http://www.kvue.com/news/Gun-show-owner ... 15242.html

by NOELLE NEWTON / KVUE News

Posted on January 19, 2010 at 5:47 PM

Updated Wednesday, Jan 20 at 10:18 AM
******

A gun show owner says the Austin Police Department violated his constitutional rights. Police are now setting the record straight.

The controversy centers around a yellow flyer passed out at the Texas Gun Show in North Austin last weekend. It reads:

"Selling of Firearms"

At the direction of the Austin Police Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, anyone selling a firearm at this show location will be asked to comply with the following:

1. Any person selling a personal firearm must go through a licensed FFL dealer in the show to transfer the firearm to the new owner.

2. Selling of firearms in the parking lot will not be permitted.

Thank you for your cooperation!

APD Detective T.J. Vineyard told reporters in a news conference Tuesday, the recommendations were the result of a year long police investigation of the gun shows.

"Every time we were there we observed transactions that were either questionable or illegal so our effort was to find ways to address that,” he said.

Vineyard said the goal of the operation was to stop illegal gun trafficking to Mexico.

"Some people would go to vendors to purchase a firearm, and when they were asked to fill out paperwork to do a background check they would bypass that vendor and go to another vendor that wouldn't require a background check,” Vineyard said.

HEB rents out the building where the gun shows are held. APD called a meeting with HEB representatives to figure out a plan to stop the problem. APD and members of the ATF recommended show owner Darwin Boedeker stop allowing private citizens to sell guns without the assistance of a licensed dealer. Thus, forcing every buyer to have a background check.

"Most of the people who are trying to achieve legitimate sales of firearms want that protection, They want to know the gun they're buying isn't stolen or the person they sold a gun to isn't a felon or on parole for murder,” Vineyard said.

Boedeker says the request is a violation of our constitutional right to freely sell guns.

"What they want to do is shut the gun shows down. This just doesn't affect me. This affects you, this affects the person down the road, every law abiding citizen,” he said.

Boedeker went along with the recommendations for last weekend's show, but still APD made an arrest. He says HEB has since told him he can no longer hold shows here. Boedeker is convinced police wanted HEB to make that call.

"At least they knew where to go to arrest them. If there wasn't a gun show, they'd be down in a back alley. Felons are always going to be able to get a gun. That's why they're felons. They don't follow the law,” Boedeker said.

"We didn't mandate anything, we didn't direct anyone to do anything. We made suggestions to them and how to handle that with their tenants or sub-leasers is a civil matter among them," Vineyard said.

Police say during the past year they have arrested eight people on illegal weapons charges. Texas Gun Shows has been using the North Austin Event Center since November. Before that the Saxet Gun Show was there. Boedeker says he knows of only one arrest since he's used the property. He says he's trying to find a new location for his show.

[Vahunter]

Vineyard said the goal of the operation was to stop illegal gun trafficking to Mexico

If they do that then they can close the border loophole and stop the illegal mexicans from coming here.

[GS78]

Well every coin has two sides right? The owners of the building who subleased it to the company running the show made a decision and will loose that business, I do see the infringment of private sales, but only in the parking lot, but I'm not a big fan of people who do that at a gun show anyway, and make a point to never buy from them not matter how "good a deal" it may be. I suppose, deals made " in the the parking lot" could fall under the purview of the "gun show" itself and thus all applicable laws would apply. I mean the gun show owner subleases the parking lot too. The way I look at it, these people who go to gun shows to sell out of their trunk are parasites anyway. Personally I have not seen people buying guns inside gun shows from FFL dealers who do not have to succumb to all applicable laws on that state.

[zephyp]

The border loophole...thats a good one. They need to do something up here. You cant swing a dead cat without hitting at least 9 or 10 .....

[zephyp]

Well every coin has two sides right? The owners of the building who subleased it to the company running the show made a decision and will loose that business, I do see the infringment of private sales, but only in the parking lot, but I'm not a big fan of people who do that at a gun show anyway, and make a point to never buy from them not matter how "good a deal" it may be. I suppose, deals made " in the the parking lot" could fall under the purview of the "gun show" itself and thus all applicable laws would apply. I mean the gun show owner subleases the parking lot too. The way I look at it, these people who go to gun shows to sell out of their trunk are parasites anyway. Personally I have not seen people buying guns inside gun shows from FFL dealers who do not have to succumb to all applicable laws on that state.

The problem in this TX issue is that he BATFE has stepped in. Thats not good. I wouldnt see such a big issue if it were only the state weenies.

[GS78]

Well every coin has two sides right? The owners of the building who subleased it to the company running the show made a decision and will loose that business, I do see the infringment of private sales, but only in the parking lot, but I'm not a big fan of people who do that at a gun show anyway, and make a point to never buy from them not matter how "good a deal" it may be. I suppose, deals made " in the the parking lot" could fall under the purview of the "gun show" itself and thus all applicable laws would apply. I mean the gun show owner subleases the parking lot too. The way I look at it, these people who go to gun shows to sell out of their trunk are parasites anyway. Personally I have not seen people buying guns inside gun shows from FFL dealers who do not have to succumb to all applicable laws on that state.

The problem in this TX issue is that he BATFE has stepped in. Thats not good. I wouldnt see such a big issue if it were only the state weenies.

oh don't get me wrong, I too see that as a major problem. They are using the "mexican drug gang " bullcrap as a way to get their foot in the door. Many "american citizens" have been kidnapped and murdered by these drug cartels inside the USA. These american citizens are mostly mexican people here because they have anchor babies and are invovled in crimes and gangs.....but when the BATFE can LOOK like they are protecting americans from some other evil AND grab some second ammendment pie too...thats just sweet for them. What should be done is as stated above, and when some of these turds cross the border they should meet with superior firepower EVERYTIME. ( before jim calls me a racist, Im talking about the mexican drug turds who have been illegally entering our country and cutting heads off of gang members already here)....

[VBshooter]

Any intrusion into private sales is not good. It gives the feds and the states and every other gun grabbing SOB out there a foot hold to start denying or controlling everything else,,Ammo,knives, BB guns and God knows what,,, I would not put it past FFL's to be in favor of this seeing they make $$ at every turn,,, Privacy is just that privacy and should not be compromised at the whim of local cops or anyone else, If BATFE Is "in Favor" of this it would seem that every other gun show around would be doing it too.. Not in Hampton this weekend, So I have doubts about their involvment.That bit about people not wanting to fill out papers sometimes means the person does not want Uncle knowing he/she owns a firearm for their private reasons. There are many cases where the laws denying gun ownership need to be revamped to bring them into reality and stop denying Constitutional rights to otherwise honest citizens.

[zephyp]

I'm with you GS78 but the first time an American ices one of the druggies who cuts off heads then they become the victim and the American becomes the criminal...I'd love to watch the trial on that one where the mother dresses up in a black shawl and tells the court what a good boy Pedro was as she weeps for her loss.

[GS78]

I'm with you GS78 but the first time an American ices one of the druggies who cuts off heads then they become the victim and the American becomes the criminal...I'd love to watch the trial on that one where the mother dresses up in a black shawl and tells the court what a good boy Pedro was as she weeps for her loss.

I did watch that trial , the defendants were compion and ramos.

[Eagle4second]

DK, I believe we've all ready crossed that bridge with Ramos & Compean. And I don't really have a problem with gangbangers merking each other. Just fewer dirt-bags to worry about. When innocents become victims, however, that's a problem. The international drug trade and it's obligatory violence becomes a threat to law abiding Americans like us when Federal and State governments use it- often simply as a excuse- to curtail our Second Amendment freedoms.

Edit: GS78, beat me to it. Great minds, right?

[zephyp]

DK, I believe we've all ready crossed that bridge with Ramos & Compean. And I don't really have a problem with gangbangers merking each other. Just fewer dirt-bags to worry about. When innocents become victims, however, that's a problem. The international drug trade and it's obligatory violence becomes a threat to law abiding Americans like us when Federal and State governments use it- often simply as a excuse- to curtail our Second Amendment freedoms.

Edit: GS78, beat me to it. Great minds, right?

and its a threat regardless...

[graybeard321]

What concerns me, if they don't get the courts involved and put a stop to it, that groups like Brady will be pushing BATFE to stop private sales at gun shows in other states. Once private sales are stopped at gun shows it is just a stepping stone to stopping all private sales. DK it's not the Beginning or the end . It is the begin of the end of our second amendment rights. Not sure what good it will do but I am writing my Senators asking them to put a stop to Batfe interference with Private sales.

[zephyp]

Hey Brent, I sent a letter asking them to get rid of the BATFE and got a nice reply telling me how they support the 2nd Amendment and common sense gun laws...

[Vahunter]

Obama supports the second admendment and common sense gun laws too, according to him.

[graybeard321]

the problem as I see it is My defention of common sense gun laws and our current elected officals defention are not even close. But then again most of them have no common sense anyway.

[VBshooter]

They did a CYA by making it a request and not a demand or condition of sales. getting BATFE involved would preempt State Laws IMHO. At no time should gun owners/traders/ sellers give an inch to the anti gun crowd, BATFE restriction or the whim of some local cop shop/// What comes next? Garbage like CA where you have to give your fingerprint and sign for ammo? We should never have to ask permission or be instructed how to conduct our private lives no matter what he matter may be.. We;re free in this country for a reason , We fight for it because it is that important to all of us... I will close with one of Ol Ben Franklins best observations "
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." It applies here and it remains a constant truth to never forget.

[zephyp]

Well, we let them do it one little step at a time. Couple of very small examples but make the point.

FSC in cigarettes -- I dont need the government protecting me from burning up in my own bed. I'm a little smarter than that.

NYC going after salt - this one should cause a huge outrage but no one is saying anything. Trans fat in restaraunts has already been banned in a couple of large cities (NY and CA). Now they are going after salt.

What or who gives the government the right to do these things? This is ridiculous. The answer to the question of who gives them the right is even more ridiculous --- WE DO every time we keep our mouths shut when they do something like go after salt...

This business of government control is like a disease. One little bit at a time until one morning you wake up and its too late....

[gunderwood]

the problem as I see it is My defention of common sense gun laws and our current elected officals defention are not even close. But then again most of them have no common sense anyway.

Yup. Common sense means only the government has them.

Edit: +1 for the tinfoil hat!

[gunderwood]

I've been to the Austin gun show many times several years ago.

Also, having experience with the APD, I can't say I'm surprised. Austin is very liberal (lots of Californian's moved there with the tech company's and being a college town). Drive 10 miles out of that city and your back in Texas. Honestly, reminds me of San Francisco and San Jose, just in Texas.

[graybeard321]

just reminded me of what grandfather a lways told me. The most feared wars you can ever hear is

Hi, I am from the govenment and i am here to help you.