Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

http://appleseedinfo.org/

I didn't want to hijack the other thread, so I've started another here.
A link to the Appleseed Project was posted in the "marksman" thread that Dustin started, and I've become interested now. Here's a blurb from the site:
The Appleseed Program is designed to take you from being a simple rifle owner to being a true rifleman. All throughout American history, the rifleman has been defined as a marksman capable of hitting a man-sized target from 500 yards away — no ifs, ands or buts about it. This 500-yard range is traditionally known as "the rifleman's quarter-mile;" a rifleman can hit just about any target he can see. This skill was particulary evident in the birth of our country, and was the difference in winning the Revolutionary War.
There are events in VA Beach and Buckingham in April and one in Mechanicsville in late May. I'm gonna have to go to one.

Parry

Sounds Like fun!

I don't see the May shoot on the board...

Palladin wrote:Sounds Like fun!
I don't see the May shoot on the board...

On the Appleseed website, click on "Appleseed" on the menu bar at top and then click "Appleseed locations." It opens up a Google map with red & green markers for the locations. Zoom in to Virginia and you'll see the one just east of Richmond. Click the marker and the "bubble" that comes up says May 29-30 and that additional info will be coming soon.

Lets get a group together and go to the May one in Mechanicsville?

Dustin

Not all of the Appleseed ranges are equipped for 500 yard shots. It might be something to check into before y'all decide on a location.

MountainCat wrote:Not all of the Appleseed ranges are equipped for 500 yard shots. It might be something to check into before y'all decide on a location.

A range you might want to consider is the one at Ramseur, NC. (From the Appleseed website - "The 'Mecca' of the Appleseed program, the Home Range of the RWVA, with popup targets out to 500 yards. If our instructors are willing to drive long distances to be on this range, maybe you should take the hint!") Don't know about you, but I really like ranges with pop-up targets.

Ramseur is just a little southwest of Raleigh-Durham, so it's not too far. Upcoming training there is scheduled for Jan 23-24, Feb 27-28, March 27-28, and April 17-18-19.

R/Kurt

ksanftleben wrote:

MountainCat wrote:Not all of the Appleseed ranges are equipped for 500 yard shots. It might be something to check into before y'all decide on a location.

A range you might want to consider is the one at Ramseur, NC. (From the Appleseed website - "The 'Mecca' of the Appleseed program, the Home Range of the RWVA, with popup targets out to 500 yards. If our instructors are willing to drive long distances to be on this range, maybe you should take the hint!") Don't know about you, but I really like ranges with pop-up targets.

Ramseur is just a little southwest of Raleigh-Durham, so it's not too far. Upcoming training there is scheduled for Jan 23-24, Feb 27-28, March 27-28, and April 17-18-19.

R/Kurt

I would be interested in going, perhaps I'll bring the wife too. Not opposed to driving a little ways either. Really prefer a 500yrd range though.

In Mechanicsville Appleseed is held at Blackcreek Range. Range has limit of 100 Yds. Targets are altered to simulate longer distance

Paliden wrote:In Mechanicsville Appleseed is held at Blackcreek Range. Range has limit of 100 Yds. Targets are altered to simulate longer distance

That won't do.

Check out Quantico. They have a couple of long range shoots.

http://www.quanticoshootingclub.com/

Yeah, Black Creek is 25 meters only for Appleseeds.

Yes, the targets are sized to simulate 100, 200, 300 and 400 yds torso/head sized targets.

No, 25 meters doesn't make it easy. Between the time limits, the position changes on two stages (standing to sitting rapid fire and standing to prone rapid fire) along with magazine changes on the two rapid fire stages and multiple targets on three of the four stages it seems the average overall (across hundreds of Appleseeds over the last 4 years) is only about 10 to 15 percent of the attendees end up shooting a Rifleman score of 210 or higher at 25 meters. The "old timers" say the full distance AQT's are easier. You only have one target to shoot all 10 rounds at on each stage instead of up to four targets, so you don't have to "break" your position multiple times during the stage to engage additional targets.

Usually the way the Ramseur Appleseeds go it everyone shoots at 25 meters on Saturday. The best shooters get to go to the full distance range so they can prove to themselves that what you do at 25 meters works on out there, too. Yeah, I know, wind and range may have to be read and accounted for but realistically from 100 to 400 yds. there's usually not enough wind to affect a .30 caliber that much (not true for the .223's) and they show you how to adjust your sights/scope for changes in distance/range.

Ramseur can be a lot of run. They have "field shoots" there 5 or 6 times a year with GI type pop up targets. Now that's a lot of fun.

Did anyone go? How was it?

There are some being held in Virginia Beach at the C2 center later this year. I'm thinking about going to the one in November (13th-14th). There is one before that too, in August (14th-15th), but it'll be pretty hot outside then so I'm leaning towards November.

I think I'm going to pick up a new Marlin 795 22LR rifle for it. I have a Marlin model 60, but it having a tube fed magazine makes it slow on reloads. Plus the 795 is usually around $140 and Marlin has a $25 rebate on their website.

I was think about going to one in October in Buckingham. It's on private and not to far away from me and it's free since I'm 16. I new to put sling swivels and a sling on and I'd be good to go. I noticed on C2 site that a rifle you choose for the longer ranges(100, 200, 300) has to have a nice flat trajectory do to concrete baffles that control noise. I don't think a .22 would but i could be wrong.

Does anyone have an idea why the next event in Ramseur is a week long?????

KaosDad wrote:Does anyone have an idea why the next event in Ramseur is a week long?????

Anyone thinking of going to Ramseur?

I am - but I can't for a week.

I think it;s a camp style course, a little more in depth and you camp there. Fire more rounds ect ect

wrt81 wrote:There are some being held in Virginia Beach at the C2 center later this year. I'm thinking about going to the one in November (13th-14th). There is one before that too, in August (14th-15th), but it'll be pretty hot outside then so I'm leaning towards November.

I think I'm going to pick up a new Marlin 795 22LR rifle for it. I have a Marlin model 60, but it having a tube fed magazine makes it slow on reloads. Plus the 795 is usually around $140 and Marlin has a $25 rebate on their website.

I was wondering about that - actually considered getting a speedloader for mine. One each for the two Marlins (mine with plain sights, and my son's with the killer scope). I swear I'm going to get this family to an Appleseed shoot somehow.

The purpose of the magazine change on stages 2 and 3 is not to teach "combat magazine changes". It is to force you to break your position and then get back into it (and get your NPOA again). If you don't know/understand NPOA and its importance in putting small groups on small targets you'll be amazed at the difference it makes in your rifle shooting.

You'll spend a lot of time on Saturday shooting 1" squares targets. There is no reloading required while shooting at one square - 5 shots on the square. The purpose of the squares is to allow you to practice what you're learning on a 4 Minute of Angle (MOA) target. If you can consistently hit that 1" square at 25 meters you have learned the fundamentals required to hit a man sized target out to 500 yds. (yes, you still need to learn to judge distance, read wind and compensate for both but without the fundamentals taught at Appleseeds learning the other two won't do you much good).

The AQT targets have 4 stages. Stages 1 and 4 do not have a reload required (load ten rounds, upon the FIRE command shoot ten rounds - both stages have generous time limits.) Stages 2 and 3 do require a reload. The reload forces you to take your cheek off the rifle stock, take your trigger hand off the stock, and move your trigger side elbow (breaks your firing position). Once you've reloaded you have to get back into that firing position and finish the stage.

Stage 2 is two targets from the sitting position. You load 2 rounds (in your first magazine) and fire them on the first target, then you change magazines and fire 3 more rounds on that first target and then put the last 5 rounds on the second target. Unless you've seen it you won't believe how many times you'll find the shooter has two separate groups on that first target. A 2 round and a 3 round group is different places on the target - which shows their eye was not in the same place behind the rear sight/scope after the reload - in other words they did not get back to the same firing position after the magazine change.

For tube fed rifles, many instructors will tell you to load eleven (11) rounds on stages 2 and 3. Then tell you to fire two rounds on the first target, stop firing, reach up with your firing hand and manually operate the bolt to eject a live round out of the rifle (and onto your shooting mat) and then get back into your firing position and fire the remaining eight rounds to complete the stage. Manually operating that bolt to eject that one live round has the same effect on your position (and the need to get back into it) as changing magazines. Your trigger hand and elbow have to move which "ruins" your position.

Appleseeds aren't just about leaning the fundamentals you need to build on to become a better shot with your rifle, its about getting folks up off the couch and involved in the job of getting our country back on track. They're not going to tell you which party is better, which candidate to vote on or which laws are right/wrong - they're going to tell you to wake up, think about what is going on and then do what your heart and mind tells you must be done to keep America from sliding further down the tubes to the same point seen in many other countries today - and then turn things around further to get it back to where it used to be when America set the pace and was an example for freedom and independance for the rest of the world.

They'll try to do this by telling you about a bunch of farmers, clerks, storekeepers, etc. who, upon hearing of wrongs being done to their fellow colonists decided they could not sit by and allow it to happen without taking steps to help those neighbors. They'll tell you about the decisions and sacrifices those common folks made when they followed their hearts and minds and did what they felt needed to be done that day.

Have fun. I learned a lot about how to shoot a rifle better.