Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Hello, all. New to the forum.

I'm travelling to Richmond for a few weeks for work, and have a few questions. I've been looking over VA law for a half an hour, and it doesn't seem to differ too much from FL, except that ya'll allow open carry.

Am I missing anything that I should know about? Do you have a preemption statute- do cities and counties have different carry laws? Any weird restrictions on firearms, magazines or ammunition? Okay to keep a loaded handgun in the glove box? Do "no guns" signs carry any legal weight?

wayneinFL wrote:Hello, all. New to the forum.

I'm travelling to Richmond for a few weeks for work, and have a few questions. I've been looking over VA law for a half an hour, and it doesn't seem to differ too much from FL, except that ya'll allow open carry.

Am I missing anything that I should know about? Do you have a preemption statute- do cities and counties have different carry laws? Any weird restrictions on firearms, magazines or ammunition? Okay to keep a loaded handgun in the glove box? Do "no guns" signs carry any legal weight?

Howdy, Wayne, and Welcome.

You didn't mention that you have a Concealed carry permit. Since VA recognizes FL(and other) permits, that will affect your freedom somewhat.

VA does have a preemption statute, the exceptions to which are codified in state law, you can find links on the left. The most confusing one applies to open carry in population centers, but only applies to certain firearms equipped with high capacity magazines.

Concealed carry is prohibited in restaurants that serve alcohol for on-premises consumption (ABC-ON or ABC-ON/OFF), but open carry is permitted unless posted by the proprietor.

"NO GUNS" signs on private property do not carry legal weight per se until you do something to escalate the situation. If you miss the sign and are asked to leave, do so and you'll be ok. Argue, and you could talk yourself into some hot water. We encourage respect for private property rights here, so if you do see a sign, doff your gun or, better yet, spend your money in a gun-friendly establishment.

Do not carry loaded and concealed in a vehicle unless you have a CHP (Concealed Handgun Permit, that's what we call 'em here). Open carry of a loaded firearm is "legal", but open to some interpretation. My advice, if you dont have a permit, is to follow federal transportation guidelines: gun empty and secured in a container out of reach, ammo secured separately.

Anything important that I left out or mucked up will be followed up and corrected by others in short order.

Hope your stay is pleasant and profitable.

Regards,

George

Sorry, 'bout that. Yes, I do have a Florida CWL.

"We encourage respect for private property rights here, so if you do see a sign, doff your gun or, better yet, spend your money in a gun-friendly establishment."

I can live with that. In the same vein, that's why I'm going to Virginia on the first place. I had a choice of VA, MA, or MD. I'd rather spend my time and money in a state that respects my rights, so I picked VA.

Spending a week in MD, along with a weekend in DC was an eye opener, with no way of keeping a loaded firearm in a vehicle, and no concealed carry without a MD permit. While I was there I had an opportunity to sit in on a meeting of Maryland Shall Issue, a group that is lobbying to reform their carry laws. They're a great bunch of guys working hard to get an almost insurmountable task, with little support. Hats off to them.

gfost1 wrote: "NO GUNS" signs on private property do not carry legal weight per se until you do something to escalate the situation.

That is actually not correct. See 18.2-308 (O)

wayneinFL wrote:Hello, all. New to the forum.

I'm travelling to Richmond for a few weeks for work, and have a few questions. I've been looking over VA law for a half an hour, and it doesn't seem to differ too much from FL, except that ya'll allow open carry.

Am I missing anything that I should know about? Do you have a preemption statute- do cities and counties have different carry laws? Any weird restrictions on firearms, magazines or ammunition? Okay to keep a loaded handgun in the glove box? Do "no guns" signs carry any legal weight?

Wayne,

You didnt say when you'd be here, but if you are here on Jan 31, I'm doing a class that covers Va gun laws.

George pretty much covered it all. If you want a quick reference and something you may already be familiar with try http://www.handgunlaw.us

It does a pretty good job and you can see the differences between the two states.

ProShooter wrote:

gfost1 wrote: "NO GUNS" signs on private property do not carry legal weight per se until you do something to escalate the situation.

That is actually not correct. See 18.2-308 (O)

Howdy, Jim,

Thanks for that correction. Can you tell me what its the penalty for violating subsection O?

Regards,

George

wayneinFL wrote:In the same vein, that's why I'm going to Virginia on the first place. I had a choice of VA, MA, or MD. I'd rather spend my time and money in a state that respects my rights, so I picked VA.

Howdy,

Given those three to choose from, I would have come to the same decision. Would that all of our choices were so clear cut.

Regards,

George

ProShooter wrote:

gfost1 wrote: "NO GUNS" signs on private property do not carry legal weight per se until you do something to escalate the situation.

That is actually not correct. See 18.2-308 (O)

Here is the code cited:

O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

While I agree that this section of code disallows CC on private property where it is "Prohibited by the owner of private property" - it does not indicate any specific way in which it can be prohibited - signage, verbally, etc. Therefore, I would say that George is correct in saying that you're OK if you "missed" the sign on your way in - if you're asked to leave at that point, then leave and there will likely not be a problem.

That's the problem with signage - sometimes, it's not properly (conspicuously) posted and is easy to overlook, even if you're looking for it.

gfost1 wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

gfost1 wrote: "NO GUNS" signs on private property do not carry legal weight per se until you do something to escalate the situation.

That is actually not correct. See 18.2-308 (O)

Howdy, Jim,

Thanks for that correction. Can you tell me what its the penalty for violating subsection O?

Regards,

George

Although I can't specifically recall anyone being charged with this in my experience, the lawyer folks that I have spoken to about this feel that a prosecutor would refer subsection O back to 18.2-308....meaning that you are carrying in a place where your permit is not valid and that would be a Class 1 misdemeanor.

As has been said before, most cops would probably just ask you to leave and if you refused, you'd get stroked under 18.2-119 instead.....

ProShooter wrote:Although I can't specifically recall anyone being charged with this in my experience, the lawyer folks that I have spoken to about this feel that a prosecutor would refer subsection O back to 18.2-308....meaning that you are carrying in a place where your permit is not valid and that would be a Class 1 misdemeanor.

As has been said before, most cops would probably just ask you to leave and if you refused, you'd get stroked under 18.2-119 instead.....

Howdy, Jim, And thanks again.

In theory, then, if one ran afoul of a less than conspicuously placed "No Guns" sign, then had the misfortune of being called on it by a series of harda**es, you could get into some deep doo-doo.

Isn't a Class 1 misdemeanor comparable in severity to the Misdemeanor Domestic Violence convictions that are being used by the Feds to disarm people?

Regards,

George

gfost1 wrote:

ProShooter wrote:Although I can't specifically recall anyone being charged with this in my experience, the lawyer folks that I have spoken to about this feel that a prosecutor would refer subsection O back to 18.2-308....meaning that you are carrying in a place where your permit is not valid and that would be a Class 1 misdemeanor.

As has been said before, most cops would probably just ask you to leave and if you refused, you'd get stroked under 18.2-119 instead.....

Isn't a Class 1 misdemeanor comparable in severity to the Misdemeanor Domestic Violence convictions that are being used by the Feds to disarm people?

Regards,

George

George,

Yes, and no. The penalties for a class 1 misdemeanor are the same for each of those on a state level but the domestic violence charge is viewed as a much more serious offense by the Feds when it comes to firearms ownership.

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen.

http://www.handgunlaw.us

^ I had forgotten that site was around. Have it bookmarked now. Still it's good to hear from some of the locals.

I think I'll steer clear of the signage issue.