Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Saw this today on the VAGUNTRADER forum...guy selling his shotgun and offering USPS shipping to any VA resident... made me think.

But, it is my understanding, after reading the ATF regulations, the pertinent NFA regs, and the USPS regs, that I can mail this directly to anyone that is a Virginia state resident without having to use an FFL because commerce between state residents is not regulated. Somebody tell me if and how I'm wrong on that.

Link to post:
http://www.vaguntrader.com/view_topic.p ... forum_id=4

Surely he's incorrect?

From USPS - Shipping Terms & Conditions - Firearms

11.3 Rifles and Shotguns

Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 11.1.1e and 11.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e.

11.1.1e says:
e. Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person.

I believe that the Gun Control Act of 1968 only covers interstate transactions.

And here's 27 CFR 178:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/wais ... 78_01.html

I'm not sure if "Sec. 178.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier" from the link above applies or not.

Good info Rick.

zephyp wrote:Good info Rick.

+1 (I would call this thread "sticky-worthy)

Unfortunately, I don't think that I have answered the question in the OP. I found a few cites, but would anyone else care to weigh in on the question at hand based on the info in my post above (or anything else that may be relevant?)

It's legal to ship directly to the buyer in state. The same rules apply as a FTF sale being that you don't have any reason to believe the buyer is a felon. Iv'e shipped shotguns and rifles sold in state but would be hesitant to ship a handgun other than to a FFL. BTW I shipped using the USPS because our UPS hub is run by idiots.

Vahunter wrote:It's legal to ship directly to the buyer in state. The same rules apply as a FTF sale being that you don't have any reason to believe the buyer is a felon. Iv'e shipped shotguns and rifles sold in state but would be hesitant to ship a handgun other than to a FFL. BTW I shipped using the USPS because our UPS hub is run by idiots.

And I'm guessing that the key to this is that we're talking about long guns and not handguns, correct?

I hope so Jay. Because only a FFL can ship handguns through USPS. Even if a person shipped a handgun using UPS it has to go next day air. That gets expensive but it keeps UPS employees from stealing them. UPS made up that rule after employees got caught stealing handguns from what I heard.

Well, I think this answers my question but I consider it falling into the "not worth the risk" category but then again, I'm not the seller just thought it was noteworthy.

Now, who is gonna try it and tell us if it worked?

Vahunter wrote:I hope so Jay. Because only a FFL can ship handguns through USPS. Even if a person shipped a handgun using UPS it has to go next day air. That gets expensive but it keeps UPS employees from stealing them. UPS made up that rule after employees got caught stealing handguns from what I heard.

Henry is right on the mark in accordance with my understanding of the laws and regulations

Long Guns - Unloaded - can be shipped USPS - Must be declared - May have to sign a written release or open the package to prove to the postmaster that the firearm is unloaded.

Handguns - Must use an FFL and must be shipped UPS Next Day Air (I think Second Day Air may be ok as well - not sure)

I think I'll take some time to give a little back to ya'll, spend some time browsing the forum and write a comprehensive FAQ for the site. This will be on it, for sure.