Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Hello, I am AD military in Virginia. I have a few spring loaded auto knives that were given to me. They are fairly useful in day to day needs, when I only have 1 hand to work with.

In Georgia we were allowed to carry them anywhere, concealed or not with out permit. What is the policy here in Virginia?

Thanks

Not a problem in VA. I don't leave home without mine.

Spring loaded assisted opening knives are not an issue per say as long as the knife requires you to manually push the blade to open, if you can just push a button no. The law on knives is somewhat inexact on what constitutes a concealed weapon in the way of knives.

§ 18.2-311. Prohibiting the selling or having in possession blackjacks, etc.

If any person sells or barters, or exhibits for sale or for barter, or gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, or has in his possession, or under his control, with the intent of selling, bartering, giving or furnishing, any blackjack, brass or metal knucks, any disc of whatever configuration having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, or like weapons, such person shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. The having in one's possession of any such weapon shall be prima facie evidence, except in the case of a conservator of the peace, of his intent to sell, barter, give or furnish the same.

So essentially switchblade and ballistic knives are completely outlawed.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

Dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor are all considered concealed weapons if carried concealed. But the key part is "of like kind". The courts have ruled that folding knives with locking blades and hilts that appear to be "fighting" knives count as concealed weapons. Of course hunting knives and the like that would be considered concealed weapons can be carried openly.

See http://www.courts.state.va.us/search/textopinions.html for searching VA court opinions for more information on how various knives have been classified as weapons or not in various cases.

I forgot to add, that for school zones blades are limited to less than 3-inches for pocket knives.

§ 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.

A. If any person possesses any (i) stun weapon as defined in this section; (ii) knife, except a pocket knife having a folding metal blade of less than three inches; or (iii) weapon, including a weapon of like kind, designated in subsection A of § 18.2-308, other than a firearm; upon (a) the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (c) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

P99 wrote:Hello, I am AD military in Virginia. I have a few spring loaded auto knives that were given to me. They are fairly useful in day to day needs, when I only have 1 hand to work with.

In Georgia we were allowed to carry them anywhere, concealed or not with out permit. What is the policy here in Virginia?

Thanks

Howdy,

Y'a might want to check out this wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchblade

Then see if your knives might fall under or be construed to fall under the following sections of the Code of Virginia:

§ 18.2-311. Prohibiting the selling or having in possession blackjacks, etc.

If any person sells or barters, or exhibits for sale or for barter, or gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, or has in his possession, or under his control, with the intent of selling, bartering, giving or furnishing, any blackjack, brass or metal knucks, any disc of whatever configuration having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, or like weapons, such person shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. The having in one's possession of any such weapon shall be prima facie evidence, except in the case of a conservator of the peace, of his intent to sell, barter, give or furnish the same.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-271; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1985, c. 394; 1988, c. 359.)

§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

Regards,

George

EDIT: I see someone else beat me to it.

If they are AUTO or Assisted Opening makes the difference, An assisted opener will have no problems , In some states , military, Law Enforcement and EMT's are allowed Auto's ( button opener types ) with no objections ,

I guess mine is "assisted" then

OakRidgeStars wrote:I guess mine is "assisted" then

Mine doesnt have a spring but its got a tab on the blade so you can flick it open. I dont care much for spring loaded ones. Springs can break. That little tab thingy aint going anywhere and doesnt look like it will break either...

It's just a matter of preference , I like a spring assisted myself but have had several manuals that were very good too.

VBshooter wrote:It's just a matter of preference , I like a spring assisted myself but have had several manuals that were very good too.

I tried spring assisted before I bought the manual. I've found that with very little practice I can flick it open just as fast.

I have several of both varieties, and a couple of weeks ago I had one of those "Opps" moments. I had been carrying a new Shrade "Special Tactical" knife with a 3" blade. Nice knife, nice opening with the push of a button. I was checking out in a local store when I reached in my pocket for some change. Somehow either I had leaned against something or had hit the button....and the blade had opened IN my pocket. I did not cut myself but it did cut a slit of about 2" in my pocket lining. I went back to my old standby, one with a little lever that opens the blade.

When I bought the folder I currently carry I cut myself with it not 30 minutes after I removed it from the box. Nice big cut down the thumb. It didnt hurt too much and it aint happened since...

This is exactly like my knifes, except not tanto. It's a push and it auto opens.


So I can't have this in Va? Even if i'm going to work?

I would say that this law needs to be amended to allow active duty to military carry. Who do I need to email? Needs to mirror Federal law.

If it opens with just a button push it is considered an Auto or Switchblade,,If the blade has to pushed a little first then its and assisted opening and legal.. In VA it may be legal for cops, EMT's and Military to posses and use an Auto type... For us private citizens though it;s a no go..

P99 wrote:I would say that this law needs to be amended to allow active duty to military carry. Who do I need to email? Needs to mirror Federal law.

Just curious, P99, what base/post do you now work at that allows you to carry personal auto/spring loaded knives?

Reason that I ask is that from my read of the policies at Belvoir or Quantico, it appears that the possession of a personally-owned auto/spring loaded knife on base/post is prohibited. Here's the applicable Belvoir reg and the Quantico order.

Don't know for sure, but my guess is that NOB Norfolk, Lee, Eutis, Hill, Dahlgren, or any other base or post around probably have similar orders or regs.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "military carry"? Were you issued an auto/spring loaded knife by your unit for daily official use that requires you to carry it on your person while off-base?

R/Kurt

ksanftleben wrote:

P99 wrote:I would say that this law needs to be amended to allow active duty to military carry. Who do I need to email? Needs to mirror Federal law.

Just curious, P99, what base/post do you now work at that allows you to carry personal auto/spring loaded knives?

Reason that I ask is that from my read of the policies at Belvoir or Quantico, it appears that the possession of a personally-owned auto/spring loaded knife on base/post is prohibited. Here's the applicable Belvoir reg and the Quantico order.

Don't know for sure, but my guess is that NOB Norfolk, Lee, Eutis, Hill, Dahlgren, or any other base or post around probably have similar orders or regs.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "military carry"? Were you issued an auto/spring loaded knife by your unit for daily official use that requires you to carry it on your person while off-base?

R/Kurt

Yes, we were all issued them. And I've never seen that reg enforced. I don't live on post, so if I'm at work and I'm going back to my home I could get in trouble with it. So I guess i'll just leave it at home. It's much convenient though as a knife, shame.

Personally, i think if you have a CCP you should be able to carry auto blades.

Georgia treated us in a carte blanche attitude towards all weapons.

If you read the belvoir reg, and compare it to the quantico reg, belvoir allows it as long as not concealed and not being used in a threatening manner.

P99 wrote:If you read the belvoir reg, and compare it to the quantico reg, belvoir allows it as long as not concealed and not being used in a threatening manner.

I'm not so sure. It would probably be a good idea to get clarification in writing from the Belvoir PMO before you carry on post. Better safe than sorry.

We're reading the same paragraph but interpreting it in different ways (me more conservatively than you). I hope I'm wrong on this, but I believe the paragraph means that while on post 1) personnel will not possess any of the prohibited items; 2) personnel will not ship any of the prohibited items, 3) personnel will not use any of the prohibited items; 4) personnel will not carry any of the prohibited items in a concealed manner; and/or 5) personnel will not brandish, carry, or openly display any of the prohibited items in a manner to reasonably cause fear in another person.

If you don't get the answer you want from the PMO, and if you were issued the knives (I assume Benchmade or similar) by your current unit, you might want to get your commander to deal with the PMO on your behalf: after all s/he was the one who issued it to you, so that could help out. Hope you get clarification that permits you to carry/use them legally on post. If so, since they are Army-owned knives issued by your unit to you, you should be able to store yours in the arms room with the other Army-owned firearms, bayonets, etc.; that way, you won't have to worry about transporting them off-post on your way to and from work.

Good luck.

R/Kurt

PS - The Georgia knife law does grant a military exemption, but only for "Persons participating in military training programs conducted by or on behalf of the armed forces of the United States or the Georgia Department of Defense;" - Georgia General Assembly Unannotated Code 16-11-127.1.(c)(3). The same paragraph grants exemptions for some people (peace officers, law enforcement officers, correctional institution employees, authorized campus/school law enforcement/security officers, and medical examiners/coroners) while traveling to and from work, but military isn't one of them. Sounds like that law just wasn't enforced where you were assigned.

Thanks for the quick reply Kurt,
I will check with the PMO first. I've been gate checked numerous times and they have never said a word about it. It may be a "sign of the times" in that we are deploying and getting issued so much.

As for Georgia, unless it's changed in the last 90 days (since I moved) it is not limited by official duties. Here is a good read
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/agop ... ermits.pdf

Cheers