Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Hey y'all.

I'm contemplating getting a lower shipped to my buddy (FFL) and have him build it as I can only obtain a completed 'rifpe lower' not having a VA license. I am licensed in my home of record (IN) and on orders to DC. This sucks...I know it.

If I take possession of a completed lower from FFL, what are steps to form 1 this baby? Will I be halted as I do not have a VA licesne?

Nub here...with a sucky predicament. I know, just go get a VA license with my VA address that I pay my VA taxes to...right?

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I would consult an attorney in Va that specializes in criminal defense of firearms infractions. Also, while not the best choice, the FFL should be able to answer your questions for you, too. By federal licensing guidelines, its their job to know what transactions they can and can't make, and keep record of the transactions they do make. That includes knowledge of processing a Form 1 in your situation.

Also, Va purchase laws vary depending on the type of weapon you are buying. Not sure if that applies at the federal level too.

I'm not an FFL nor have I been in your specific situation, but I did find some info. This is "use at your own risk".

From the NRA.

When a member of the armed services wishes to purchase a firearm, for the purposes of the establishment of residency for firearm purchase, residency of a member of the armed forces shall include both the state in which the member's permanent duty post is located and any nearby state in which the member resides and from which he commutes to the permanent duty post.

I also found this from a dealer site...

Rifles and shotguns may be purchased from licensed firearms dealers by persons who are residents of other states upon the presentation of one photo-identification form issued by a governmental agency of the purchaser's state of residence and one other form of identification determined to be acceptable by the Department of Criminal Justice Services

The following secondary forms of ID are acceptable:
A current lease.
Evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax.
A current utility or telephone bill.
A current voter registration card.
A current bank check.
A current passport (must include an address).
A current automobile registration.
A current hunting or fishing license

my personal view of the situation... you'll do the ATF paperwork as an IN resident, as it looks like you lack the documentation to establish VA residency (from your previous posting).

Once the form 1 is approved, and the firearm is made, you can then file a form 20, for a permanent change of storage location.

But I'm a bit fuzzy if you even need to do the form 1 in IN, or if you could just do the form 1 from VA.

I'd make a call to BATFE and get their advice on how the forms need to come in so they can be approved.

It's been so long I don't remember the details.

I was in the US Army, stationed at Ft. Myer, VA, for 3.5 years from 1976 to 1979.

My home of record was a small town in WV.

While in VA in the US Army I bought a 1911, several old US military rifles (03A3, 03, M1917, two 03A4's), a Rem. 742, a couple .22 rifles, etc. etc.

No AR15 stuff (experience with M16A1's in the Army had soured me for years on ever owning an AR15) but I could buy firearms.

I'm not a lawyer or FFL, but the AR15 lower is just an AR15 lower. Buy itself it is not an "assault weapon." The features that make it an assault weapon have not yet been added to the lower receiver (per VA law).

I've bought multiple AR15 lower receivers over the years and the procedure is the same as for buying a single shot shotgun or single shot .22 rim fire. The one time I bought an AR15 with a collapsible buttstock, a flash suppressor, a pistol grip, etc. I also had to provide proof of US citizenship along with proof of VA residency.

Unfortunately, you'll get different advice from one FFL to another. One won't do something another one will. Even lawyers and judges are not 100% up on all the laws. Seen that in court myself (someone else's trial) when the judge was giving a man advice of a plea bargain and the lawyers (his and the commonwealth attorney) were trying to "respectfully" give her the correct information.

Hope you can at least get started on it. I can't give you any advice on the paperwork for the short barreled rifle. Never done it myself.

A mixed bag of results. Thanks for input.

A lower receiver is "firearm" and can be sold to anyone who meets requirements...but according to VA, it's handled as a pistol...just like in CA...
I cannot purchase a pistol or a stripped lower, hence pursuit of a completed rifle lower. I do not know as ofnyet if he can do engraving for Form 1 purposes. I can ask him directly. I know he can build stuff from chunks of billet. He machined a 1911 from raw materials recently.

But there is a distinct line between making for sale and transactions of NFA items.

If I do get an NFA item in IN, I have to request/notify that I am moving it across state lines. More headache.

VA license it seems is asnwer. I already own a house, have mailing address and pay then lovely property tax...
It allows me to purchase pistols and stripped lowers that way, after 30 days of license issuance date.

NRA is wrong. At least on those who are stationed in DC. VA does NOT count me as anything but a DC resident. I can only buy what anyone else visiting state can, shotguns and rifles. That is why I was asking about SBR and suppressor.

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We don't have any awesome attorneys on this great forum? Boy, calguns sure had a lot.

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Could I, as of right now, form 4 at a dealer like Quantico tactical, buy an SBR?

No one really has asked as being a resident of DC, owning a house in VA and home of record elsewhere. I know firearms purposes, I am a legal resident of DC and everything is forbidden...until I get a VA license.

I can buy a rifle in VA, MD, most states legally. Can I buy an NFA item the same?

Time to find a firearm lawyer...oh yeah. I asked TLB guys on YouTube. Awaiting response from John and Adam.

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SnakeWIthAGun wrote: I can buy a rifle in VA, MD, most states legally. Can I buy an NFA item the same?

What you are allowed to do legally and what a dealer will do are two different things.

The FFL I worked under wouldn't do non-resident sales & transfers of long arms. His reason was he was obligated to follow the transfer rules for the buyers state of residence, but he didn't know the rules for each of the other 49 states. So to protect his shop from doing something wrong, he wouldn't to the sales/transfer.

CYOA... Got it.

But VA state law permits shotgun/long gun sales to non residents, permitting you pass a NICS. I don't have a problem passing NICS.

The question continues...can I form 1 or just form 4 at local vendor. I reached out to QT and have been busy with lawn work, etc to check. I will post my findings here as soon as I receive them

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Federal law requires dealers to follow state law for the state of residence of the transferee. And that is were an out of state dealer can run into problems knowing the non-local law requirements.

Yes.

VA state law is a non resident can purchase a completed rifle, a completed lower (as it's configured as a rifle) or a shotgun. No pistols or stripped lowers.
We know the law.

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All this time I've been told an AR15 lower is sold/recorded on the forms as "other" not a pistol and not a rifle.

That's why you can buy one and then build either a pistol or a rifle from the lower.

Then again, one FFL will tell you one thing and the next will tell you something different.

Oh, and I did buy my 1911 while stationed at Ft. Myer, Va and carrying a WV driver's license while in the US Army. No one at Clark Brothers in Warrenton mentioned anything about needing a VA driver's license. Then again, that was about 40 years ago, maybe things were looser then (1978 or 79).

M1A4ME wrote:All this time I've been told an AR15 lower is sold/recorded on the forms as "other" not a pistol and not a rifle.

It is

Utah wrote:

M1A4ME wrote:All this time I've been told an AR15 lower is sold/recorded on the forms as "other" not a pistol and not a rifle.

It is

Actually, I personally when through this with BATFE and my local FFL. It is 100% based on how the manufacturer has the lower registered with BATFE and has nothing to do with what the vendor/FFL puts on the paper.

If the maker sent it out as a rifle lower, it doesn't matter what the seller/FFL writes on the Forms, its a rifle. If it went out as a pistol, its a pistol that can be converted to a rifle. If it was made and registered as "other", than I can be built as either. However, once it's registered as a rifle, it can never be changed to a pistol.

The vendors I have talked to (three in Woodbridge area) will NOT sell me a stripped lower as a non-resident. No matter how the lower was "registered" by a company. As federal law, it's marked as 'other' just as 'firearm' and it's up to the person building it what it is. Once configured as a rifle, you can't change it. Where I come from, weapons aren't registered...just as they aren't here.

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But it seems we are getting way off track.

QT will not move forward with doing a form 4. They won't even bother with it because of license.


The question still remains. Can a non-resident of a state purchase NFA item. Still awaiting response from the legal brief guys in PA.

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You were stationed where? In VA. Making you a "VA resident" and not DC. Hence why you could purchase a pistol.

I am asking if I, orders in DC, living in VA, IN license could form 4 or form 1 while living in VA with an IN license?

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Copper customs in Valpo answered my question. I just get a VA license to purchase an SBR.

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I believe that was mentioned in another thread you started, but you seemed to be resisting that answer. It really simplifies everything.

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