Over in Kuwait...

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SHMIV
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Over in Kuwait...

Post by SHMIV »

The government in Kuwait is advising it's citizens to scrub any evidence of terrorist ties from electronic devices, before traveling to the US, so as they are not denied entry upon arrival.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kuwait-tells ... 56974.html

I favor closing our borders to everyone for a while. This is part of the reason why. Also part of the reason why I'm inclined to see all green cards, student visas, work visas, etc. revoked; send everyone home.

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kelu
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Re: Over in Kuwait...

Post by kelu »

You want me sent home? Why?
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Re: Over in Kuwait...

Post by Ironbear »

SHMIV wrote:... I'm inclined to see all green cards, ... revoked; send everyone home.
My wife would probably have some choice words for you!!! So would I! She is pro-2nd, and is more conservative and has a better grasp of American history than most of NOVA! She also heads our homeschool, so I am sure the left-wingers would love to send her home too!
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I told him, "I want to pound nails!"
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Re: Over in Kuwait...

Post by SHMIV »

Please understand that I don't have any sort of personal vendetta against non-citizen residents or guests of the United States.

@ Kelu: Personally, I think that you ARE home, and I don't want to send you back to the country from whence you came.

@ Ironbear: Same goes for your fair bride.

That's my personal feeling on the topic, and there are others, I'm sure, that would get the same feeling from me.

That said, I stand by my previous statement. Please allow me to give some further explanation. I'm not going to go into full detail; partly because I'm on a smartphone, with half my screen taken up by virtual keyboard, and partly because my stance on the topic is part of a book that I am planning to write. So, forgive me if the explanation seems a little incomplete.

When I consider matters of politics, law, right & wrong, etc., I set my personal feelings, my emotions, aside. I tend to look at things in a very black and white way. It has been my observation that anything can be justified in "grey areas". (Likely, this way of viewing things had something to do with one of my ex-girlfriends describing me as "an emotionless husk")

As I originally pointed out, national security is part of my reasoning behind this stance. Another part is economic. According to Google, we are currently in excess of 19 trillion dollars in debt, as a nation. We can't afford to do anything. We do not need foriegn students. We don't need foriegn workers. (We do need Americans to step up to do these jobs, though. But, that's a different topic.)

If we allow some to stay and make some go, we then need to create standards to determine who stays and who goes. Of course, that should be done, anyway, when the time comes to start allowing folks back. Once those standards are set, then government employees will be needed to screen every individual person. Those employees will require payment for services rendered. Seeing as the national bank account is more than $19 trillion overdrawn, the country cannot afford to pay government employees for that particular service. Indeed, other services must also be cut, but again, that's another discussion.

I am well aware that some desirable people would be sent away. I know that we, as a country, would lose folks that are far more deserving of the American Dream that a lot of the folks that would get to stay. But, this way is simple. We really can't afford the luxury of complexity, anymore.

I will add, however, that it would be very unjust to send folks away who have already started the legal process of obtaining citizenship. Time, effort, and finance has been invested by those folks, and they should be allowed to go on and finish the process.

I mean no offense; my view is held solely for pragmatic reasons, with no malice intended. And, since I have absolutely zero legislators banging on my door, demanding to receive my legal opinions, in order to propose law, I highly doubt that my opinions in this matter will ever amount to more than part of a book that I might write, that probably won't be read my many people, and then be written off as some fringe thing, anyway. So try not to be too angry with me :)

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Re: Over in Kuwait...

Post by SHMIV »

Please understand that I don't have any sort of personal vendetta against non-citizen residents or guests of the United States.

@ Kelu: Personally, I think that you ARE home, and I don't want to send you back to the country from whence you came.

@ Ironbear: Same goes for your fair bride.

That's my personal feeling on the topic, and there are others, I'm sure, that would get the same feeling from me.

That said, I stand by my previous statement. Please allow me to give some further explanation. I'm not going to go into full detail; partly because I'm on a smartphone, with half my screen taken up by virtual keyboard, and partly because my stance on the topic is part of a book that I am planning to write. So, forgive me if the explanation seems a little incomplete.

When I consider matters of politics, law, right & wrong, etc., I set my personal feelings, my emotions, aside. I tend to look at things in a very black and white way. It has been my observation that anything can be justified in "grey areas". (Likely, this way of viewing things had something to do with one of my ex-girlfriends describing me as "an emotionless husk")

As I originally pointed out, national security is part of my reasoning behind this stance. Another part is economic. According to Google, we are currently in excess of 19 trillion dollars in debt, as a nation. We can't afford to do anything. We do not need foriegn students. We don't need foriegn workers. (We do need Americans to step up to do these jobs, though. But, that's a different topic.)

If we allow some to stay and make some go, we then need to create standards to determine who stays and who goes. Of course, that should be done, anyway, when the time comes to start allowing folks back. Once those standards are set, then government employees will be needed to screen every individual person. Those employees will require payment for services rendered. Seeing as the national bank account is more than $19 trillion overdrawn, the country cannot afford to pay government employees for that particular service. Indeed, other services must also be cut, but again, that's another discussion.

I am well aware that some desirable people would be sent away. I know that we, as a country, would lose folks that are far more deserving of the American Dream that a lot of the folks that would get to stay. But, this way is simple. We really can't afford the luxury of complexity, anymore.

I will add, however, that it would be very unjust to send folks away who have already started the legal process of obtaining citizenship. Time, effort, and finance has been invested by those folks, and they should be allowed to go on and finish the process.

I mean no offense; my view is held solely for pragmatic reasons, with no malice intended. And, since I have absolutely zero legislators banging on my door, demanding to receive my legal opinions, in order to propose law, I highly doubt that my opinions in this matter will ever amount to more than part of a book that I might write, that probably won't be read my many people, and then be written off as some fringe thing, anyway. So try not to be too angry with me :)

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Re: Over in Kuwait...

Post by kelu »

You are wrong on this. There are about 1 million green cards issued each year, and some 60% of those are family-sponsored. Only about 150K per year are work sponsored GC. In this time, there are 95 million Americans out of work force. Clearly not because of those 1 mil per year.
What we started to experience about 10 years ago was the post-industrial era. I don't know a good name for it, but it is similar yet much more profound than industrial revolution. Until now the principal driver was automation, we will start to see robotics. Fewer and fewer jobs, except for those that will adapt.
Your truck will travel alone in couple years, and you will be render obsolete. Or you will be allowed to be a "truck supervisor", stand behind the wheel "just in case", with a lower salary, because it's not you driving anymore.
Look at the cash registers. 10 years ago, there were probably 10 lanes manned at any superstore, now you have 6-8 self-checkout lanes, and only 2 other manned. I try to always go to the manned ones, because I know I have been part of the automation that cut some jobs, and I consider that people should continue to have jobs, even for their mind sanity if not for the income.
Things will accelerate drastically in my view, and I see very possible that we will get to 150 mil out of force in 10 more years. I'm no fool to think that Trump will bring jobs back. Jobs will go to robots. In the same time new jobs will appear, many which we cannot imagine today. But we need to be pro-active and to train people.
Worried about those 19 trillions? Well, most of it was waste, and entitlements, and be ready to see that increasing exponentially, to keep those 150 mil I spoke above on govt expense.
And, about those GC, I have seen many more hungry immigrants working hard and willing to build something, than I see native born Americans.
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Re: Over in Kuwait...

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That's because those immigrants are willing to work for far less than the native born. They also do crappy work as I've seen fixing houses immigrants built. Tell me how do you mess up the foundation of a house, with the "I" beam misplaced and temporary adjustable lalli columns used instead of permanent ones? I've seen these immigrant built houses with corners cut at every turn, measurements that are way off, floors that are uneven, roofs and shingles put on crooked, and general shoddy workmanship. Don't tell me what immigrants build when I have to constantly fix their messes! Oh they work hard yes, but can't do anything on their own and need a taskmaster watching their every move. You show me an immigrant that can build a quality house on without a real carpenter and I'll show you a honest politician.

If it were up to me I would put a high tariff on all money leaving the US, place a tax on outsourcing, and arrest those who hire illegals all of which contribute to the decline of the US job market.
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Re: Over in Kuwait...

Post by Swampman »

@kelu - the name for the post-industrial revolution is the technology revolution. The millions you speak of who will be out of work will be a temporary number. Just like the industrial revolution, millions who either don't want to be retrained, or who are too old to be retrained, will remain out of work. The younger generations will comprise the new work force and as the older generations die off the number on government support will fall again.

I would agree with @thekinetic that the immigrants that I have personally hired to do some minor construction projects on my house have done substandard work by my standards. For that matter most of the Americans I have contracted also perform at substandard levels. I attribute that to my location. Pride in workmanship is a lost art these days. It is sad.
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Re: Over in Kuwait...

Post by Viper21 »

thekinetic wrote:That's because those immigrants are willing to work for far less than the native born. They also do crappy work as I've seen fixing houses immigrants built. Tell me how do you mess up the foundation of a house, with the "I" beam misplaced and temporary adjustable lalli columns used instead of permanent ones? I've seen these immigrant built houses with corners cut at every turn, measurements that are way off, floors that are uneven, roofs and shingles put on crooked, and general shoddy workmanship. Don't tell me what immigrants build when I have to constantly fix their messes! Oh they work hard yes, but can't do anything on their own and need a taskmaster watching their every move. You show me an immigrant that can build a quality house on without a real carpenter and I'll show you a honest politician.

If it were up to me I would put a high tariff on all money leaving the US, place a tax on outsourcing, and arrest those who hire illegals all of which contribute to the decline of the US job market.
Have seen plenty of the same. I've been a roofing contractor for 25 yrs. New Construction today offers a little more than half of what it did 20yrs ago. I literally had a GC who I did some work for in the early 90's contact me about 5yrs ago. He was offering half of what he had paid me in the early 90's :bangin: This is with the design of the houses being more complicated, & steeper roofs being more prevalent today. What drove all those prices down...? Cheap labor. Mostly illegal immigrants.

I haven't had a steady gig with a GC in close to 20yrs. My business is all reroof, & repairs today. 90% of the issues I run into.....shoddy craftsmanship. It's actually worse with the newer homes than the older ones. By newer, I'm talking homes built in the last 15yrs to present..... I'm constantly surprised at the lack of craftsmanship I encounter on a weekly basis. This wasn't always the case.
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