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Just a reminder of what you're are saying

Posted: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 07:06:47
by AlanM
It's just a 4 minute video. Well worth the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZBTyTWOZCM

Re: Just a reminder of what you're are saying

Posted: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 08:17:20
by thekinetic
That's very touching, but you know even as a boy in elementary school I refused to cite the pledge of allegiance. It is because I don't believe in pledging one's self to any one nation, that the greater good far outweighs it. That even then I saw that our government had spat on what it stood for. So now the only pledges I make are as followed: The unspoken pledge to my family, the pledge to my love when I marry, and lastly the pledge to my creator; none of which I would ever break. Nations rise and fall but those three are worth dying for.

Re: Just a reminder of what you're are saying

Posted: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 08:19:54
by AlanM
Interesting attitude, do you vote?
Have you EVER been out of the US? (Other than, Canada, which is an americanized version of England)

Re: Just a reminder of what you're are saying

Posted: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 11:03:11
by SHMIV
I, myself, have felt conflicted about the Pledge, for various reasons.

Francis Bellamy wrote the Pledge. It's worth noting that he was a Christian Socialist who didn't care much for Capitalism, and he was a big supporter of public schools. He liked public schools so much, he actively fought against privatization of schools. The original intent of the Pledge was to have children begin their school days by reciting it. However, he was asked to write it, as opposed to taking it upon himself to do so. Some accounts that I have read claim that it was written as part of a campaign to sell American Flags to public schools.

Wikipedia on Bellamy:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy

The part regarding his politics is of particular interest.

As a side note, the author Wallace D. Wattles was also a Christian Socialist. Wattles is best known for writing "The Science of Getting Rich", which is interesting considering the Christian Socialism view of wealth in general. This book, though, is some New Thought silliness. If you remember when "The Secret" was a thing, that was basically the New Thought Movement, brought out of an old drawer, dusted and polished, and put on a shelf for resale.

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Re: Just a reminder of what you're are saying

Posted: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 11:25:08
by FiremanBob
I also am troubled by the Pledge. I see it as a creation of the "Progressive" movement, who were infatuated with European, especially German, nationalism and socialism. It's an attempt to impose a top-down, government-mandated, form over substance sham of patriotism. I think that the addition by Congress of "under God" in 1954 was gratuitous.

I suppose one could say that over many decades, and with the help of such outstanding Americans as Richard Red Skelton, the Pledge has evolved into a genuine expression of patriotism, but I find that hard to believe when I watch Watters's World or Dice interviewing the airhead Americans of today.

The collectivism inherent in the pledge is a serious problem. The forced, daily recital of it reinforces the idea that the individual is subjugated to the "greater good" of the nation, that individual identity and individual rights, and the value of each human being, are all less important than the fictional entity of "society" (which also means "government" as long as said government is controlled by the Left).

Perhaps my real problem is in how the Pledge has been misused. The Left, when they aren't trash-talking America, usurps patriotic expressions by conflating "the federal government" with "United States of America", "flag", "republic", and "nation". They want everyone to pledge to the government, not to the nation.

Re: Just a reminder of what you're are saying

Posted: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 11:55:22
by SHMIV
And speaking of this little refrain:

http://conservativepost.com/obama-signs ... ationwide/

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@Bob: I have no doubt that Bellamy, himself, viewed the terms "government" and "nation" to be synonymous, considering his big-government beliefs.

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Re: Just a reminder of what you're are saying

Posted: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 12:04:02
by SHMIV
Disregard the link posted above; I should have delved deeper into that report, before posting.

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Re: Just a reminder of what you're are saying

Posted: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 12:06:24
by WRW
Of note, that was done in 1969, a very turbulent time of change in this Country.

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