Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I'm looking for a new carry piece. Like many folks, I started out with a midsized pistol but I have found it to be bit much for daily carry. In my case, I am tall and skinny, and a clunky gun can cause minor back pain and general discomfort during a full day.

I've since added an ultra-light revolver and a Polish P-64 (Walther PPK sized gun) to the mix. The revolver carries comfortably IWB, but only gives me 5 shots of .38, which is OK but not great. It weigh's 16 oz. The P-64 carries nicely but is a marginal caliber and I would still prefer it to be lighter and possibly shorter (it is 21 oz). I know it sounds ridiculous that I can not carry a PPK sized gun extremely comfortably but as I said, I'm real skinny.

I was comparing the Kahr PM9, Kel-tec PF9 and the Taurus Slim at the gun show this weekend. Here are my thoughts:

PF9 Pros: VERY light, VERY slim for a 9mm. It is inexpensive.
PF9 Cons: Fit and finish was questionable IMO, compared to the other two. There were little shards of plastic hanging around the edges of the frame where it met the rear of the slide which could have used a good sanding. I was not impressed with the trigger.

PM9 Pros: Light and slim, though not quite as much as the PF9. Good fit and finish. I like the look of it. Decent DAO trigger, better than the PF9, but not my favorite.
PM9 Cons: EXPENSIVE.

Taurus Slim 709 Pros: This feels like a "real gun" in my hand. I am guessing it would be very controllable to shoot for a pistol so light and slim. I like the SA/DA trigger w/ "second-strike capability." I like the way it looks. $369 is doable, which is what I saw it for at the show. I like position and type of safety.
Tuarus Slim 709 Cons: Bigger than the other two (about the same size as my P-64.

I find that it is extremely difficult to determine the reliability of any of the guns above. I have read threads on various forums, and looked at reviews on sights like youtube. It is so difficult to determine reliability, because you're more likely to hear from a large percentage of extremely dissatisfied customers on the internet. Also, many of these guns are faulty during the "first run" of production, but the manufacturer may make improvements over time to solve the "bugs." I understand that this is the case especially with the Kel-tec PF-9.

Reliability is #1. If a gun isn't reliable, of what use is it, aside from collector's value? I would rather carry a reliable 5-shot revolver than an unreliable 7 shot 9mm, but I REALLY want a reliable, subcompact 9mm.

I can say for certain that if the Kahr PM-9 had the reliability of a Glock (mine had 3k rounds through it with not a single FTF), I would pay the $600+ that they ask for this gun. However, the worst buying experience I can imagine is to pay $600 for a gun and have it jam on me, even 1 in 300 rounds.

I'm thinking I may opt for the Taurus Slim.

Your ideas and suggestions are appreciated.

Hey burns,
Let me state up front that ANY reason to buy a new gun is a good one.
But... have you considered different carry options for your mid-sized pistol? It sounds like you are satisfied with it, but it is uncomfortable to wear all day. Finding the right method of carry or the right belt/rig and holster combination can make a big difference, even with a larger gun. If anything, it may give you more options/opportunity to carry your mid-sized gun.
On the reliability issue, you're right... it's hard to determine reliability from reviews, etc. The guns you listed ARE from reputable manufacturers, so you can have some confidence in that.
FWIW, I carry the reliable 5-shot revolver you mentioned.

Parry

Let me add my nickel here,
I can tell you that the PM9 is exceptional for concealment and there are days that I forget I have it on me. I guess I have put close to 600 rounds through it without any FTF/FTE and would love to give the PM40 a whirl. Here lately though I started to carry my XD40SC and use the PM9 with a bellyband holster as backup. I have become partial to the XD after I added the guide rod laser. However final selection should be based on what you like best. Go to the gun show near you and try out various holsters and pistols. I did and I selected the XD40SC with shoulder holster.

Have you checked out KTOG.org?

I've been fairly impressed with my P11. I bought mine new, and thus it is covered by Kel-Tec's lifetime warranty, haven't had to take advantage of it yet (but then again, I just bought it within the past month).

Visit KTOG and give the Kel-Tec a fair shake.

My carry gun, P-11 as my primary:

My P3AT Backup:

I have a PM9 and it has been flawless in the two years I've had it, and the 1000+ rounds I've put downrange. It is actually a tad smaller than the PF-9 overall, and a whole lot more quality. If it isn't small enough for you, then you have to go to the Rohrbaugh in 9mm (I think the perfect deep concealment gun, but at $1100, beyond my means) or the P3-AT or LCP in .380.

Keep your eyes open for a used PM9 for around $500. I think it is well worth the extra $150 or so to buy the Kahr over the Kel-Tec.

I've got a PM40 that is essentially identical to the PM9 in size. Like you, I read many scary things about it on the internet before I decided to go ahead and buy one anyway. And, I love it. I did have one jam during the 200 round break-in period, but I've got almost 1000 rounds through it now with no further issues. I'm trying to decide right now between a PM9 and a PM45 for my next purchase. I hope to end up with one of each eventually, but as you pointed out Kahrs aren't cheap. I'm having to pace myself. One thing I have noticed on all the forums is it seems like Kahr's customer service is pretty good about helping people resolve issues when they come up. Thankfully, I haven't had any problems, but it is good to know they stand behind their product.

As for carry comfort, I sometimes forget I've got it with me. I switched to the Kahr from a Glock 27. Whenever I carry the Glock now it feels like a brick on my hip. I wear the PM40 in a SmartCarry holster during the work week, and in an IWB holster from Backwoods Leather in Portsmouth, VA on nights and weekends. I recommend both holsters btw. The SmartCarry is great for deep concealment and comfort, but the draw is slow. One more good thing about Kahrs is that all the mags of the same caliber work in most of the other models of that same caliber, similar to Glocks. So I've got 5 +1 with the standard mag, plus I bought a 7 rnd K40 mag that I carry as a spare. It's still less than the 18 rounds I had with my G27 and a spare mag, but 13 rounds of .40 isn't anything to sneeze at.

Best of luck with your decision. The beauty of it is, if you get it wrong that just gives you an excuse to buy another gun!

CDW wrote: Best of luck with your decision. The beauty of it is, if you get it wrong that just gives you an excuse to buy another gun!

That's my kind of mistake !!!

Thanks for the responses. I still haven't decided, but I might stop by a shop today and give them all a second look.

I ended up with a PM9. I took it to the NRA range a few days ago and it was great; 275 or so (multiple types of FMJ and JHP including +P) rounds with no problems.

It shot great.

Congratulations on your new gun. I don't think there was a bad choice in that whole bunch, so I'm glad you're happy with your pick.