Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

So I'm walking down my block yesterday and there is a police car parked at the curb.



Out of curiousity, I look in through the window to see what kind of gear they're carrying and this is what I see.



Looks like an AR style rifle in a rack in between the seats, magazine loaded. Now, one of the things I love about this forum is all the practical advice you get here on common sense safety. Some of the threads I remember most are the ones about firearm safety in cars. What do you guys think of the safety of this? Leaving a loaded AR clearly visible in a car parked unattended on the curb? Seems to me this was frowned upon last I recall.

There was probably some kind of lock on it, locking it into place in the vehicle.

Many officers used to keep patrol rifles in the trunk.....until officers started getting pinned down by fire and couldn't get to the trunk.

I wouldn't worry.

As Jim mentions, there are locks on those racks. The ones that I have seen and interacted with use and electric solenoid that is activated by a release button, but only when the vehicle ignition key is on. Also, some of those types have a secondary release that uses and actual key, in the event the rifle is needed by the LEO while the vehicle is off. I gave some strong consideration to doing this for my 300 Blackout pistol, but I don't really have a friendly space to install it, seeing as in how it a civilian commuter vehicle and the rarity that I would actually use it.

Also, the last time I checked the laws, civilians were not allowed to keep loaded rifles in their vehicles; only loaded handguns. I'm not sure if that is still the case. I would have to look into it.

EDIT: My mind may be failing me. It may be that rifles can't be cased and loaded during transport. Something to do with concealed weapons laws. I'm looking it up now.

Well... I just combed through the code of VA and didn't see anything prohibiting a loaded rifle in a vehicle other than the conceal carry laws. So, I don't see any reason someone couldn't keep a loaded rifle in the vehicle as long as it is not concealed.

I seem to recall there being laws against carrying loaded long guns in your vehicle, about 3 or 4 years ago. And, I don't recall there being any discussion of those laws being lifted. But, just because I have no recollection of it happening, doesn't mean it didn't.

I've always assumed that those laws were in place to deter folks from shooting deer on the road side from out of the car window.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

check the hunting regulations. lots of limits on loaded rifles there

True. I only looked at state level... not county.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

jdonovan wrote:check the hunting regulations. lots of limits on loaded rifles there

^THIS.

I know of multiple people who have been searched, & a couple who've been cited for loaded rifles in vehicles. Hell, a couple of em the rifles weren't even in their vehicles. Best I could find was this.... http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/re ... p#specific However, this only pertains to state & federal forest lands, or lands managed by them. Theres a whole laundry list of regulations for particular cities/counties.... although, the 2 counties I hunt in aren't listed in those regulations.

With the exception of some specific places such as some federal land, school properties, etc, it is legal to have loaded firearms in your car in VA. If it is concealed you will need a CCP, however, a closed glove compartment or center console are considered open carry, and do not need to be locked.

TomVA

TomVA wrote: however, a closed glove compartment or center console are considered open carry

TomVA

Where did you get that from? That is not correct at all.

Loaded handguns may be carried in an unlocked glove compartment or center console of a motor vehicle without a CCP:

http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-308/

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material...he is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

C. Except as provided in subsection A of § 18.2-308.012, this section shall not apply to:

10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel;


Per http://www.handgunlaw.us for VA:

"For purposes of this subsection, the term "compartment" includes a console, glove compartment, or any other area within or on the vehicle or vessel that possesses the ability to be closed and the term "secured" means that a container or compartment be closed but not necessarily locked."


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... sport-law/

"Before 2010, absent certain exceptions, the law that prohibited carrying a concealed weapon without a permit also barred transporting a handgun “in a concealed manner” in a vehicle. This included guns that were stored in glove compartments or center consoles.

The 2010 legislature, however, added another exemption for “any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel” — an exception that applies when the gun is secured in a container or compartment. It need not be locked, according to Mr. Cuccinelli."


Attorney General Cuccinelli's opinion on the meaning of secured in a container or compartment within the vehicle:

"It is my opinion that, provided the handgun is properly secured in a container or compartment
within the vehicle, persons who may lawfully possess a firerum but have not been issued a concealed
weapons permit may possess, in a vehicle, a handgun that is loaded and the handgun may remain within
reach of a driver or passenger under such conditions. It further is my opinion that, for a handgun to be
"secured in a container or compartment," such storage tool need not be locked. Finally, it is my opinion
that an individual may not keep a firearm stored in his vehicle at a place of employment if there is a
company policy or signage prohibiting firearms on the premises."

It's still concealed carry. The law just allows those specific exception. That doesn't traslate to you are open carrying.

Those exemptions you quoted are what is commonly referred to as "an affirmative defense" to the charge of concealment without a permit.

I'm not a lawyer so you certainly may be right, and indeed subsection A states "It shall be an affirmative defense to a violation of clause (i) regarding a handgun, that a person had been issued, at the time of the offense, a valid concealed handgun permit."

But the actual wording of subsection C states "This section (§ 18.2-308) shall not apply to:...Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel" (emphasis added). Thus it seems to void subsection A entirely, and along with it the affirmative defense language. Am I reading this wrong?

To me I would think that if a concealed carry permit is not required it is open carry. I recall reading somewhere (can't find it now) that the logic was that a car is an extension of ones domicile and therefore treated as if in your home.

Tom VA

Sounds like you are mixing some wording up somewhere.

Yes, your vehicle is considered an extension of your home, but concealed is concealed. Having a gun hidden in an IWB holster, tucked in your pants and covered by a shirt, completely hidden from view, is still a concealed weapon even if you are home. Another words, its not "not hidden" because you are home. Being at home is an affirmative defense for the concealed weapon.

I should have elaborated a bit more... The same holds true for your weapon in you vehicle. Just because it is secured per the code, that doesn't change the fact that it is still hidden (concealed).

Open carry in your vehicle would be the weapon openly in plain sight, such as a holster on your body, a special holster on the dash, laying on the floor or seat, etc.

The bottom line is, the definition of open carry or conceal carry doesn't change because of where you are and your choice of concealment. However, it is relevant to whether you get prosecuted or not. In the globe box or center console, the pistol is hidden from plain sight, thus concealed.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I see your point - if the gun cannot be seen it is concealed. I have viewed any carry that does not require a CCP as being open carry, perhaps not a good choice of words.

TomVA

MarcSpaz wrote:I should have elaborated a bit more... The same holds true for your weapon in you vehicle. Just because it is secured per the code, that doesn't change the fact that it is still hidden (concealed).

Open carry in your vehicle would be the weapon openly in plain sight, such as a holster on your body, a special holster on the dash, laying on the floor or seat, etc.

The bottom line is, the definition of open carry or conceal carry doesn't change because of where you are and your choice of concealment. However, it is relevant to whether you get prosecuted or not. In the globe box or center console, the pistol is hidden from plain sight, thus concealed.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MZH ... _i=desktop

Marc,

At one time were looking for something like this for your SBR and your Jeep.

That is pretty slick! I like it. Thanks for the link. I may get that one.

TomVA wrote:I see your point - if the gun cannot be seen it is concealed.

TomVA

That's not correct. Its got nothing to do with what can be seen. Its all about how you are carrying it.