Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Got an email from Warner's office the other day about young people going broke paying for college. In it, he talked about young people getting into mountains of debt with student loans and continued to pay lip service to the idea that colleges and universities need to reduce tuition.

My response:

Senator Warner,

I recently received your email titled, "You Shouldn't Go Broke Paying for College." I couldn't agree more! What I don't agree with is why. The reason young people across this great nation are in debt up to their ears with college loans is due directly to federal involvement in the process of education in this country. And let's get one thing straight - EDUCATION IS NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL FUNCTION OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!

Why do you suppose colleges are raising tuitions? Do you, in your addled pea-brain, suppose it has anything to do with all the federal money you and your thieving cronies are throwing at prospective students? You don't suppose that colleges see that cash-cow and fight each other like rabid animals for as much of that as they can get, do you? Both my daughters went to college and came out with no debt! My wife and I, with help from grandparents, paid for every cent. We filled out those stupid FAFSA forms in the beginning, but quickly realized we were doing nothing but providing personal information for no reason. When my youngest daughter graduated from Christopher Newport University, we received a full color mailing that showed the new dormitories being built on campus. THE FREAKING FLOORS IN THE COMMON AREAS ARE ALL MARBLE! ARE YOU SERIOUS? FREAKING MARBLE? Oh, and I might mention that the president of CNU is former VA State Senator Paul Trible. Obviously hired simply for his ability to raise money.

Do you and your partner in crime, Senator Kaine, ever give any thought to the fact that if you stop dumping money in higher education colleges will have to lower tuition? Don't think that can happen? Let me explain. Stop giving MY money away to colleges, initially, fewer young people will be able to attend college. So, to attract more students, colleges will have to lower tuition to make it more affordable, otherwise they'll shut their doors. As a former businessman, I'm even you can understand how capitalism works. Oh, sorry, I forgot, you're a stupid politician now.

You morons do nothing but piss me off. You seem to think you have a claim to a portion of my labor. My wife and I are not rich. We have worked our asses off over the years to provide for our family. We have paid off debt by doing without. We don't buy new cars every 4 or 5 years. We had one new car when we were first married, 29 years ago. Since then it has been all used cars. All of them are over 110,000 miles, with one vehicle topping 315,000 miles. I am not complaining, just stating fact. I am very thankful for what I have. But make no mistake, NO ONE HAS A CLAIM TO ANY PORTION OF MY LABOR WITHOUT MY CONSENT! GET IT?

You were smart enough at one time to start a successful business and then benefit from it. Then you entered politics and became STUPID. Every time you send me one of these ridiculous letters telling me how you a pissing my money away, you can expect to hear from me. So keep them coming dipstick. I enjoy this in some warped way.

You know something? I've managed to survive quite well without a college education. It may surprise some of you to learn that I am actually a high school dropout. As it happens, it's actually possible to learn things on your own. It's possible to learn useful skills and knowledge by associating with people that possess useful skills and knowledge. Many skilled and knowledgeable people are happy to share what they know.

Something else, in a similar vein; I've also managed to survive without ever having possessed a single credit card; even in this modern age of ordering stuff off the internet.

I have a sister who decided that she did want to further her formal education. She saves her money, then pays for a class at the community college. Sometimes, she pays for two classes. But, she's paying as she goes.

My other sisters are paying off student loans. One is a stay at home mom, and the others are working in jobs that they could have obtained without a college degree.

I have nothing against a college education, in and of itself. But, it is simply not worth spending the first decade and a half (or more!) of ones adult life in debt in order to obtain it. And, it surely is not right to expect me to pay for others to obtain something that I've never seen fit to obtain for myself.

Incidentally, my great-grandfather didn't attend college, either. He managed to become a millionaire before he died.

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My wife received your Doctoral in Physical Therapy... and a six digit student loan to go with it. College education has become a racket, and here's why:

Between 1993 and 2007, total university expenses rose 35%. But administration expenses rose a whopping 61% and instruction expenses rose 39%. In fact, as a 2010 Goldwater Institute study finds, “universities have in recent years vastly expanded their administrative bureaucracies, while in some cases actually shrinking the numbers of professors.”

Government out of control. Every bureaucracy does this unless people keep it in check.

I paid for my education, and I am working in my field...

And I'm still not paid jacksh't....

BUT!

I love what I do! That's the key to happiness. Do whatcha love!

there are too many people who think degree=big job, and big pay.

Turns out its hard work that generally gets you to success.

When the gov't got into the education loan business and made it so you couldn't discharge the debt via bankruptcy they completely turned costs to out of control.

Get the gov out of the loan biz, and let students go bankrupt and wipe the debt.

The market will figure out REALLY QUICK where the risk/benefit/reward of making the loan is, and shortly there after higher education tuition will come into alignment with reality, or they won't have enough students to stay in business.

There was a day when you could work full time delivering pizza's and going to school at the local community college. I'm afraid that day has long passed since uncle sam messed with the finances by being the sole lender.

An "affordable" school charges $450-$500 per credit hour. The average class is 4.5 credit hours. "Full time" is 12 hours or more, year round. On a quarterly system, you are looking at $27,000 per year; $108,000 for a BA or BS. The average minimum monthly payment is about $200 a month per loan. If you go to college straight out of high school, pay the loans back consecutively instead of concurrently, you will die before the loan is paid back.

And that is the cheap option. Schools like Yale, Brown, MIT, you are talking $3,700+ per credit hour! $800,000 for a BA/BS from a more expensive University. You are in the millions for a Master or Doctorate.

That is crazy!

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Plus most degrees have no market value making it impossible to pay off. These kids would be better off going to a trade school looking to get a well paying job instead of a college degree in a worthless field.

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One of my sisters (one that aquired student loans, and is still paying it off after nearly 10 years) was telling me that she found students in college classes to be about the same as students in high school classes; disruptive and obnoxious.

She attended a reputable school, too. I have to figure that her peers either were not paying for the privilege of attending college, or had absolutely no concept of the definition of the words "loan" or "debt".

Another thing that occurs to me; my sister (different sister; I have lots of them ) dated a guy for a while who applied to all the schools that were on a "Top 10 Party School" list. He was accepted, aquired some debt, and dropped out.

It seems to me that all this government interference has driven up the cost of higher education, and has cheapened the whole experience, at the same time.

I see no reason to believe that I have missed out on anything by skipping the whole thing.

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When the government decided that student loan debt could not get discharged under bankruptcy except under extreme conditions, more places started loaning money and schools started growing to allow more and more students in. It has saturated most degree fields and made an uneven playing field when a foreign worker can take less money because they got free college while an American worker has loans to repay. I still have student loans, I decided to get an education later in life and it is completely my decision. I have a guy working for me now that has an MBA and can not find a job in his field. My wife has a Masters from Duke and she went a year without work once. The education guarantees nothing.

All education has become is a filter for applications.

Even then? Work experience is being viewed highly. Craziest thing now! Exroomie of mine? Does NOT have a Computer Degree, but has a bunch of certificates of knowledge in multiple areas. Working I.T. for 27 years...

Some punkazz applied for a position he was applying for within his company. That company was punkazz's first job. He had a computer degree. He did not get the job. Why?

27 YEARS of experience was the EXACT amount of YEARS punkazz had been on the planet. He had a year of experience, and kvetched about "...well... I have a degree..."

And? It's getting back to EXPERIENCE counts for more!

Rev... I'm in the same boat. I started writing computer code professionally in 1984. Back then, a home PC was almost unheard of. I have so many certs I lost count. I don't have a degree. I went for about a year in the early 2000's, but it was pointless. I New more about Computer Science then the people teaching the classes. The course cost and the number of hours was not worth the benefit... if there is one.

I recently left a decade long position with federal law enforcement were I was "the" senior engineer and the only person in the country who did the work that I did. I was being paid almost double what the other engineers were making... all of them had degrees.

There is no substitution for intilect, hard work, and experience. If you have a good work ethic and can get along with others, you can accomplish anything.

An acquaintance went to work for Lockheed 20-some years ago. No degree, working in the Metrology lab. He left LH, and went to work for some outfit that builds, installs, and maintains the machines that manufacture computer memory chips. He is back at LH now working on a new weapons system at PAX River. He'll be moving to a Virginia base this year, still with LH, as a trouble-shooter for various defense projects. He is on the back side of 55, and finally got his degree last year, only because LH asked him to finish it. He has, like Marc, more certifications than you can shake a stick at.

Rev, I believe you are correct. Experience is taking its rightful place in hiring.