Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Say a fella wanted to buy a basic, bare-bones AR (556 Nato/223) that he could upgrade a little. Say this same fella wanted to spend no more than $1,000 on this AR. What suggestions would you offer this guy?

Oh... there are a PLETHORA of bare bones AR's out there under $1k!

If you're looking for New? You can find some advertised in local ads for weekend specials. Check local Gunshops for USED if that doesn't bother you.

I know that LOTS of people bought AR's during the "NewTown Shooting", ended up never shooting them, and selling them off when times got harder, those are still floating out there.

I would make sure it has a dust cover, and forward assist. Even if you never need it, you probably be better off HAVING it.

People used to say the S&W M&P 15's were very good rifles for the money.

They are like all the rest right now, prices are the lowest seen in years.

If you can build your own, buy a lower receiver from Green Tops, at a gun show near you, from Quantico Tactical, or a gun shop local to you. Then buy an AR15 parts kit from Palmetto State Armory and you can build you a nice AR15 for less than $600 and put the rest of your money into ammo to shoot in it.

I bought two AR15 pistol kits from Palmetto State Armory this summer and put them together with two AR15 lower receivers I bought from Quantico Tactical and they both work and shoot like a charm. I keep forcing myself NOT to buy a couple rifle kits from them to use on the other two receivers I bought at the same time.

AR 15's and parts kits are so cheap right now it's almost a crime not to be buying and building them.

Gun show Nov 14-15th at RIR.

I was reading this article today while eating lunch. I can't say that I disagree with anything in it.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/28/ten-a ... nder-1000/

The thing about buying an AR at a gun show is you really have the know the values. There is no logic to the prices guys try to get at shows, other than caveat emptor.

My local shop has a bare-bones Del-Ton Sport for $499, and a rather nicer Ruger AR-556 for $649. A grand will get you a very nice AR with upgraded parts and nice features.

If you want a fun experience, building your own from the PSA kits can be very satisfying. Any money you save on the kit will be more than spent on the specialized tools required for the job, so if you want to do only one, don't expect to save any money.

Rather than focusing on price, I'd focus on what functions I want this AR to perform and what features make it do those best. Some of the key questions I'd ask are:

1. How much will I shoot it? Heavy use points to insisting on a chrome-lined barrel.

2. What weight bullet will I use? For 55 and 62 grain bullets, the "commercial" 1:9 twist rate is fine, but if you think you will want to shoot high-power matches at actual distance you'll probably want to shoot 77 gr. bullets which won't stabilize at 1:9. The best solution is go straight to a mil-spec 1:7 twist barrel.

3. Make sure the barrel is rated for 5.56mm, not only .223. The military round has slightly higher pressure than the .223.

4. What sighting system will you use - military type irons, a red dot, or a scope? This will dictate the type of gas block and rail for mounting sights.

5. Is weight a consideration? The lighter "pencil" barrels are easier to carry around but I'd want a heavier profile for sustained rapid-fire or improved accuracy.

Palmetto has two ARs that are already nicely spec'd out here:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-s ... rbine.html

and here:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/ ... /id/11235/

Like M1A4ME said, S&W M&Ps are pretty good values. That was my first AR, and so far I've been happy with it.

Hey man... what would this fella potentially be using this AR for? Precision mid-range target? Hunting? Brown Fan? CQB? Slow fire? Rapid fire? Heavy use? Light use? Yes to all of the above?

Lots of questions to ask to make sure you get pointed in the right direction. For instance, hunting deer with a round that is .224 inches is prohibited. SO, and AR10 style rifle would be the better way to go. Hunting Coyotes with .223/5.56 is fine. Precise target shooing, get a gun that is direct gas impingement and stay away from gas piston systems because piston systems have more recoil. Or... if you are going to do rapid fire, a gas piston system stays cleaner and cooler. Home defense, you need a short barrel to get around inside the house easier... etc.

Once you have an idea about what you want to do, from there you can start looking at base rifles that will likely fit the need. As far as brand goes, you will get some folks that tend to stick to brands they know. I'm one of them. Some say buy S&W MP15, compared to I had some major machining problems with the MP15 I bought. I love SIG Arms, but others have owned SIG that were nightmares and will never buy another one. Reality is, you can buy any of the many well known brands at entry level between $650 and $1,500 (depending on brand) and do just fine.

Common trusted brands of AR's (in no special order)...
Rock River
PSA
Brovo Company
Armalite
Colt
SIG
S&W
Stag Arms
Bushmaster
DPMS (yuck)
FN
Bushmaster
LMT
C15
Knights Armament Company
Remington
Patriot Ordnance Factory
Barrett
Les Baer Customs
Para Ordnance
Sabre Defense
JP Rifles
DS Arms
Wilson Combat
Alexander Arms
Olympic Arms

I have one that one that I am selling if that fellow is legally allowed to own such an item.



Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I usually look at Slickguns to see what deals are out there and found this http://www.slickguns.com/product/ar15-r ... 00-or-less

You can get a lot for less than $1k these days the best IMO are Colt 6920's but the S&W's are pretty good. You do give up a few things on the Sport model but I haven't heard any complaints.

You guys are a freaking FONT of knowledge! I started looking around and very quickly figured out I was in way over my head. I have a lot to think about, and a lot of questions to ask.

Some questions I already have answers for, such as: close quarters - yea; rapid fire - not likely, but maybe a little; 3-gun tournaments - not likely; hunting - maybe, but for that I have other options; plus, I just like putting some lead downrange (who doesn't?).

@cwfunrider - yes, this fella is legally allowed to have one. PM me with some specs, if you would.

At present I am planning on just one, so if I build one I'd probably want to get with someone who has the tools so I can avoid that outlay. More likely will go the pre-assembled route.

Thanks again guys!

So far, it looks like you're going to look for a 14.5", 1 in 7 twist, direct gas impingement, flat-top with a free-float barrel. 16" if you don't want to go the NFA route. 5.56mm is a must.

Based on that... I would say Chris likely has a great hook-up for you if the price is right.

Forgot to mention, if you want a 14.5" barrel like a traditional M4 Carbine, but not have it under NFA purview, you have the flash suppressor pinned and welded. By law, the flash suppressor become part of the barrel, making the overall barrel length over 16". Just buy a seperate upper and receiver and don't put the two parts together until after the flush hider is pinned.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

MarcSpaz wrote:Forgot to mention, if you want a 14.5" barrel like a traditional M4 Carbine, but not have it under NFA purview, you have the flash suppressor pinned and welded. By law, the flash suppressor become part of the barrel, making the overall barrel length over 16". Just buy a seperate upper and receiver and don't put the two parts together until after the flush hider is pinned.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

You are creating way too much work. For starters if you were to purchase a 14 1/2 barrel and use a standard "A2" flash suppressor, you are in violation of the NFA by .20 of an inch (1/5 if you like fractions0. There are manufacturers out there that sell 14.7" barrels with an A2 already pinned (CMMG comes to mind) or companies like BCM (Bravo Company) that sell 14 1/2" with an "extended A2" already pinned (meets the overall length requirements of NFA).

The blessing and the curse of the internet is there is a mountain of information out there. Your problem is figuring out who and what to believe and who and what not to believe. When it comes to the AR. M4Carbine.net and AR15.com are 2 sites that have a ton of info available. ARs have become like M1911 style pistols, there are literally dozens of manufacturers out there and the quality control can be all over the place. Magpul is one of the most popular manufacturers of stocks, grips and handguards out there and some manufacturers offer these accessories on one of their rifles, so that rather than buy a rifle and then pull these parts off, you can buy a rifle with them already installed. I personally recommend staying away from buying a rifle from someone at a gun show unless it is a reputable dealer that you can go to if there is problem.

Greg... I now about the length issues. I was just generalizing for conversation and to put the idea of options out there. It is good that you followed-up with the extra detail though. Picking the wrong flash hider / barrel combo will get you in trouble.

MarcSpaz wrote:Greg... I now about the length issues. I was just generalizing for conversation and to put the idea of options out there. It is good that you followed-up with the extra detail though. Picking the wrong flash hider / barrel combo will get you in trouble.

It is more than just that, when you purchase your rifle barrel it should be installed in an upper and have the headspace checked with the bolt it is going to be used with. So many people seem to think, "Hey I can buy a new bolt and a new barrel and the will work together." In a perfect world that would be true, and almost all of the time that would work fine, but who wants to be in that small group that will have problems and with headspace problems that could mean a ruptured case. It would all be caused by not knowing or being too cheap to get the headspace checked. If anybody is going to "build" a rifle, the smartest thing they could do is purchase an assembled upper receiver, barrel and bolt carrier assembly from a reputable manufacturer like Bravo Company and ensure they have been headspaced correctly. At that point the manufacturer could also provide you with some sound advice if you are running a collapsible stock as to what buffer weight you should use.