Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

So I am looking to build a AR15 and deciding if I should start with a stripped lower, or complete. I am tempted to start with a stripped to split up the cost a bit, any ideas.

A couple questions:
I may or may not already have access to a friends cmmg ar in 5.56, so I am considering just making another in 5.56.. or would you rec another cal and why.

If I wanted to make it a .22, should I just go with 556/223 and then use a conversion kit to shoot 22?

Should I use a slide fire stock?

What brand parts.. I want to stay mil spec, and have the whole AR under 1k(ideally way under) but whats the trade off?

I know this may lead to many opinions, but please let me know, as I want to make a smart buy

thanks

So, answers/recommendations will vary depending on what you want to do. I can give you some general info, but more about the intended purpose would help.

GregVa wrote:So I am looking to build a AR15 and deciding if I should start with a stripped lower, or complete. I am tempted to start with a stripped to split up the cost a bit, any ideas.

I often do this with items I can't or don't want to buy all in one chunk. Mostly because I am an impulse buyer, so saving money till I have it all just doesn't happen. I have to spend it when I get it. With that in mind, I can think of many reasons to do what you ask.

GregVa wrote:A couple questions:
I may or may not already have access to a friends cmmg ar in 5.56, so I am considering just making another in 5.56.. or would you rec another cal and why.

If I wanted to make it a .22, should I just go with 556/223 and then use a conversion kit to shoot 22?

Again, depends on what you are doing. Popular rounds in an AR style weapon are .223, 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO, 7.62x35 (300 Blackout) and more recently 7.62x39 (AK style).

.223 and 556 are cheap and plentiful, can range out to 650m and still be useful on a soft target, and are a great all-around rifle cartridge. You can buy 22LR uppers or bolt kits, which are much cheaper to shoot, when you can find the ammo. You can also use a 300 Blackout upper on it.

7.62x35 (aka 300 Blackout) is a great compromise between all combat/defense uses and target shooting. They have sub-sonic rounds that are great for suppressed, low noise, very low recoil, CQB type applications out to 150m.... basically performs a shade better than a 9x19 pistol round. Then, with literally nothing but a mag swap or reload, you can use high pressure, supersonic rounds and have more energy than the .223/5.56 or the 7.62x39, reliably out to 350m-400m, and still lethal out to 600m+ on soft targets (bearing proper barrel and round combination). You can slap a 22LR, .223 or 5.56 upper on it too.

An AR in 7.62 NATO (aka .308 WIN) has the same basic look and feel as an AR-15 / M4 clone when built into an AR platform, but makes much more energy, hits fatally at 1100m-1200m, but tends to be a few pounds heavier due to thicker materials needed for the increased pressures.

AR's that shoot 7.62x39 (AK style) rounds are great if you want to be "that guy" at the range who has the crossbreed that many seem intriguing and purest hate. LOL They perform a touch better than the .223/5.56, but not as much energy as the 300 Blackout not the energy and range of the 7.62 NATO.

Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on a dedicated AR that fires 22LR unless its going to be purpose built. The cost is really high compared to many other semi-auto 22LR rifle styles.

GregVa wrote: Should I use a slide fire stock?

I bought one 2 years ago and have not used it yet. Many of the ranges around me won't let me do auto-fire, and they consider the slide fire stock the same thing. My plan is, if I make it to Range 82 anytime soon (like, when I manage to get a weekend off), I will take it with me just to screw around and see how it works.

I think it looks and feels really cheap. I would only install it when I'm at the range and plan on playing. Even if I love it, due to what feels like low durability and poor aesthetics, combined with the point that you can count on accuracy problems in a defense situation, there is no way I would leave it on all the time.

Upside... I hear its really fun and it can be swapped on and off pretty quickly.

Downside... mag dumps with anything listed above (excluding 22LR) is going to cost between $8 and $25 for a 3 or 4 second bust of fun.

GregVa wrote:What brand parts.. I want to stay mil spec, and have the whole AR under 1k(ideally way under) but whats the trade off?

Stick with recognizable and popular names and you will do just fine. Under $1k should not be a problem. I really sweet lower, completely done... maybe $350 for "quality" Mil-Spec products. If you want a really nice trigger instead of the mil-spec trigger, add at least $250 to $300 to that. A decent complete A4 upper will be around $500.

So figure $850 to $1,100 for reliable quality. I've seen some guys put together AR's in 5.56 for $650, and two years later they don't own them anymore or it never leave the safe. I'm guessing that's for a reason.

GregVa wrote:I know this may lead to many opinions, but please let me know, as I want to make a smart buy

thanks

Shoot some of your friends stuff or find rentals too. That may help. I have found some very generous forum members that spent time at the range with me. Maybe someone close can let you take a few options for a test-ride.

I hope that helps man. So many variables and personal preferences that its very hard to make honest recommendations.

Are you mechanically inclined and interested in building your own lower? If so, I'd say go for it, since it really doesn't require any machining or adjustments. All the parts drop/snap/screw into place although you will require a tool for your buffer tube/castle nut. Now, you can still find decent completes for pretty cheap, but I believe it's always a good idea to understand how to put together and take apart your lower. Besides, it's such great satisfaction to be able to use a lower that you've built from scratch.
Building it from scratch also gives you the flexibility to put in the components that you want. For instance, if you know you are going to go with an aftermarket trigger, then you can just buy the one you want, instead of having to swap out the stock trigger group from a complete lower buy.

If this is your first AR, then I would recommend getting 5.56 just because of the availability of ammo.

To run 22lr, you can get a conversion kit, get a 22lr dedicated upper, or just buy a fully dedicated 22lr gun. The S&W MP-22s are nice, and while plastic, retain the full function of an AR15. If the point is to train, train, train, then a conversion kit might be the best option so you can develop the muscle memory with your primary weapon in terms of your specific configuration.

I've neer used a slide fire stock so I can't comment.

Most parts these days are all mil spec. You should definitely be able to build an AR for under $1k unless you start adding a gazillion tacticool accessories and cutting edge, trendy parts. My advice: build a basic gun and run it like crazy. You will soon learn what you need to better help you accomplish your goal with the gun. Is it HD? Is it for work? Is it for the range? Hunting? Let the purpose drive the accessories.

The other item I would save for (besides mags) is an optic.... but that is another topic.

good luck!

Thanks for all the details guys!

I will probably not go with a dedicated .22, this was going to be a target practice riffle, but making it as a AR 10 is tempting so I can use it to hunt with. I do like the idea of making it a 7.62 AR, just have to read up on which one.

I also like the idea of building one out, so that is a possibility, I should be able to follow directions and put one together.

I am starting to build out the AR. Hope to put the LPK in this week. Trying to decide if I should build it as a AR pistol, or go for a SBR and setup a trust etc.

If I set up a trust, have a nfa item, and own it through a trust, its just the cost to set up the trust, and the tax stamp per item right? These do not have any annual fee correct?

I might start the build out as a pistol and then when the trust is complete make it a SBR.

Too many options.. just trying to decide if the trust is worth all the paper work ...
Any advice on that? All shooters Tactical has a guy that sets up trusts so that should work , but its still a extra step.

MarcSpaz wrote:AR's that shoot 7.62x39 (AK style) rounds are great if you want to be "that guy" at the range who has the crossbreed that many seem intriguing and purest hate. LOL They perform a touch better than the .223/5.56, but not as much energy as the 300 Blackout not the energy and range of the 7.62 NATO.

I thought I wanted to be "that guy", but now I think I'd rather go with the 300 Blackout. One of these days I'd like to look over the shoulder of someone who's building an AR and learn a few good tricks of the trade.

Greg, do the pistol, trust, and then SBR the pistol. It's the easiest and you get to have the gun right away, while you wait for the stamp. Then, just swap the buffer tube and put a stock on it.

No reoccurring fees. Pay the lawyer once. Buy tax stamps once for each item.


Jay, If you want to swing by over the weekend, I'll show you how easy it is and what tools you will need. It's pretty straight forward. I'm not doing a build until the weekend of the 11th, but I'm going to bave a house full. Having a friend over won't fly with Lindsay. This weekend its just Nick and I.

Just let me know.

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Jay. I got my weekends screwed up. I'm doing the build the wekend of the 11th and Lindsay will be out of town. Family is in the following weekend.

Thanks Marc, but work will have me traveling that weekend. Maybe we can get together on a future build.

GregVa wrote:So I am looking to build a AR15 and deciding if I should start with a stripped lower, or complete. I am tempted to start with a stripped to split up the cost a bit, any ideas.

get a coffee can and put your nickles in it, when you have enough buy a complete one. I really don't know you'll save much by assembling it yourself. When a complete pistol lower can be had for 129, there isn't much savings to be had.

I may or may not already have access to a friends cmmg ar in 5.56, so I am considering just making another in 5.56.. or would you rec another cal and why.

If you don't have one, I'd start with the 556 there are plenty of other options available, but start with the basics.

If I wanted to make it a .22, should I just go with 556/223 and then use a conversion kit to shoot 22?

I prefer a dedicated 22 barrel for my ar-15/22's and once you do that, you are almost at the same price point as dedicated purpose built 15/22.. which is 2-3x the price of a ruger 10/22.

Should I use a slide fire stock?

The opening sentence said you were spreading out costs... so why the heck would you want a more expensive stock, that allowed you to use ammo supper fast??!?!

What brand parts.. I want to stay mil spec, and have the whole AR under 1k(ideally way under) but whats the trade off?

A self built gun from random parts, is more than likely going to have a bit of trouble getting it all to run reliably. Being your first AR you're not going to be familiar with what is right/normal operations so it might be a bit of challenge.

For under $600 you can have a bushmaster, or PSA, and even less if you find one used. My vote for your first AR is to buy an already built one and then run it a while. Once you know what you want to modify, and why, then you've got a target to modify to achive.

I have to say that I am a huge fan of the Slide Fire stock. If you have the pockets to feed a full-auto, you can have a lot of fun with one.

That said, I'm with JD on the Slide Fire Stock and budget constraints. If you are have a tight budget for acquiring and feeding the rifle, a Slide Fire may be a novelty you want to skip for now.

The latest gen Slide Fire is $300. If you build a 300 Blackout, you need deep pockets to feed that thing too. In two days of rapid fire shooting, about 3.5 hours of shared range time each day, with my Slide Fire stock, I shot $2,000 in 300 Blackout and about $400 in 5.56 NATO. Obviously the 5.56 is way more affordable to feed if you go that route, but if you are on a small R&R budget, I would say you need to weight the happy per dollar. Especially when a 30 round mag is empty in 3 seconds or less.

I really like and enjoy shooting the Slidefire....Lots of fun.....Not very practical. It's also very hard on the Shooting Range! Today a shooting buddy brought his New 10/22 Slidefire to my range for some "High Speed Shooting ". We shot 1100 rds . in an hour and a half. Mike said the Slidefire Kit cost $450 including the trigger assembly and installed in 15 minutes. It performed flawlessly with no problems at all. I'm going to order one for my S&W M&P 15/22 . I would like to build an AR at sometime in the future. For now I am content shooting my $600 Bushmaster and $800 Sig.

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MarcSpaz wrote: The latest gen Slide Fire is $300.
$2,000 in 300 Blackout and about
$400 in 5.56 NATO.

Ya know, in ammo/stock costs you're 1/2 way to the cost of a registered full-auto. Anything FA, or simulating full-auto is a rich mans sport. Ammo adds up in a real hurry.

Ok .. I admit .. already have a ar .. that was my 'friends' . Just building one since I wanted to learn how it goes together, and so I can spread out the cost. My wife is the main issue for spreading out the cost. It's eaiser to mask a hundred here and there.

So with that I think the slide fire would be more cost feasible for me in 5.56.. the 300 sounds like it would add up too quickly.

The local store is helping me put it together so I think they will get me stuff that will work together.

Probably going to build a ar pistol first... will follow up with some pics of the build.

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Greg, keep us up to date for sure... looking forward to some pics.

jdonovan wrote:

MarcSpaz wrote: The latest gen Slide Fire is $300.
$2,000 in 300 Blackout and about
$400 in 5.56 NATO.

Ya know, in ammo/stock costs you're 1/2 way to the cost of a registered full-auto. Anything FA, or simulating full-auto is a rich mans sport. Ammo adds up in a real hurry.

No doubt. Honestly, I could have aquired that 1 auto pistol we talked about, but I found another 9mm in different brand in an auto SBR format, completely restored, no labor on my end. I'm going to see if I can talk him down. I talked to him twice, and I think there is some wiggle room.

I really like building ARs. So may options. Here is the latest on I finished about 2 weeks ago. Still needs a test drive.



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Nice build, what type of muzzle brake is that? Looks like one of those forward sound directors?

I completed the lower, with the help of all shooters tactical. It was much easier than I thought.

This thread is right on time,im getting an ar with my tax money

It is a KX3 flaming pig. It is forward throw. AST is a great shop. I have gotten to know one of the owners fairly well.

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I'm glad your having good luck with them. I did bussiness with them 3 times and got screwed all 3 times. Including them selling me a used, broken gun as new, working, and it was not the model the said it was, but dressed to look like what I wanted.

When I bitched about them on here, one of their regulars who was a member here told them, and someone from their shop created an account just to come in here and post attacts against me for days. I'll never go there again and wouldn't send someone I don't like over there.

All just my personal opinion of course.