Sad experience with Richmond Animal League

[M1A4ME]

I've been looking for a dog. One of my two (almost) 15 year old mutts passed away two weeks ago. That leaves me his brother and a 3 year old mixed redbone/walker female. I know the older dog won't last forever and I was looking for a replacement (for us and the hound).

The Richmond Animal League website has a dog I was interested in (dark, long hair, mixed breed). We (my wife and I) went up to see the dog and fill out "adoption" papers.

The dog was very reserved/quiet compared to most of the other dogs. The various people working there that night commented that he was brand new, some had not seen him before, they told us he'd come from another shelter where he was awaiting being put to sleep, etc.

We petted him, talked to him, and he eventually starting responding to us (more to my wife than me, but hey, I've seen that before) and would come when she called to him.

I was up front and told them the dog would be kept in a big pen in my back yard (about 30 ft. by 50 ft.) with three large dog houses. Fancy doghouses. Insulation, interior plywood walls, covered porches, shingle roofs. One single house (built for our first dog, a stray border collie) and duplex (built for the two male pups we rescued from under a trailer up in the mountains). I was told that was no issue, they did not require that the dogs the adopted out be kept inside your house.

We had an appointment to come back at 5 PM the next day and showed up on time. I'd already been telling family and friends (and our remaining 2 dogs) that we'd be coming home with a new buddy. We were once again led (outside this time) to a place where we could be alone with the dog and we again, petted him, walked around with him, talked to him (he does not chase tennis balls) and I was really looking forward to getting him home, taking him for a walk, getting the knots/clumps combed out of his hair and giving him a good bath.

Well, we finally (after some delay - ended up we were interviewed by a different person than we were originally told would interview us) and we were told we had to keep the dog in our house or we could not adopt him. The dog is supposed to be a shepherd/retriever mix and is not a tiny house dog. I told the woman who was interviewing us that I had no intent to keep a dog that size in my house and was told that based on what she knew of the dog's history, we could not adopt the dog. She tried to talk us into other dogs (isn't that called bait and switch) and I refused.

I sent an e-mail last night to another person (recommended by my oldest son who knows people who volunteer there) detailing the results of our two visits and containing pictures of our dog pen, dogs and dog houses. I got a phone call today from the same woman we talked to last night. The end result is she again told me she would be glad to set me up with some different dogs, but not the one we wanted.

I sure hope that poor dog doesn't end up going back to the "kill" shelter because someone believes dogs should be kept inside with people. What a shame. He seemed to be a sweet dog.

My search continues. Just be aware, if you are looking for a dog, you may have better luck at a different place than RAL.

[M1A4ME]

Got a couple of phone calls from them today.

The first one was a repeat of last night's conversation (same woman). This time I did ask if she realized that a dog that was supposed to be half shepherd and half retriever were breeds developed to be outside? That sort of slowed the reply down but then I got a repeat of they just felt like the dog would do better if kept inside.

The second call was more/nicer conversation but the answer was the same. The RAL has a policy of not allowing dogs to be adopted unless they approve of the environment the dog will be living in.

My wife tried to argue last night, at the shelter. I just took her hand and took her to the car and explained that you cannot argue (rationally) with anyone who uses "I feel/we feel" vs. evidence, records, history, logic, etc. Isn't that what is happening all over the country these days? Decisions being made because people "feel" it should be done. They "feel" we'd be better off without guns. They "feel" we'd be better off living in the type of housing they want us to live in. They "feel" our children should be taught some things and not taught other things about the history of our nation.

It's all about "feel".

Am I happy? Hell no. I was already, in my mind, walking that dog, playing with him, feeding him treats, finding out if he liked the wading pool in the dog pen, etc., etc., etc. I was assured that they (RAL) never ever send dogs to a shelter to be killed. I was told if they get a dog in their shelter and no one adopts it they will just keep it indefinitely. I was assured that. What a sad way to live. Locked up in a 4 ft by 4 ft. cage with 40 other dogs around you in similar cages barking all the time. I wonder if they feed those dogs kibbles and bits every day, treets after every walk and canned dog food a couple of times a month.

I've decided I need to start making some phone calls to some of the "country" counties where folks just might still realize that dogs are not people and do not have to live in a human occupied house/home. Maybe I'll find a good dog to adopt in one of those shelters. If I do, I'll come on back and show some pictures of him.

Thanks for letting me piss/moan/complain.

[GregVa]

Well what if you intended to keep the dog inside, but then it started tearing up your shoes, and everything else. Even though its ripping your place apart you have become attached to it, so you have no choice but to let it stay out side to keep your house. But of course you planned to keep it indoors. just sayin

[trailrunner]

When I grew up, the pounds were happy if someone adopted a dog and provided a loving home. Didn't matter if it was inside or outside. That was southern California, where the weather was nicer, but nevertheless, they didn't do interviews or anything like that. When my wife and I were first married in CA, we adopted two mutts, but when we moved to VA, we couldn't bring them with us and instead took them to my father-in-laws house. He had grown up on a farm, and there was no way he was going to let dogs in his house. He lived at the base of the mountains and it got pretty cold and hot there, but those dogs stayed outside year round. In the winter, they grew thick coats, and in the summer, they shed. They were very happy living there, running around on all that land, and I don't think they cared too much about living outside.

When we moved to Virginia, we were surprised that to adopt a dog from a county facility, our house would have to be inspected and all of that. We had decided to keep our pet inside (mostly because we didn't have a fence), but we still didn't feel like we should have to go through an inspection, so we went to an independent shelter. The dog we brought home lived a happy life for over a decade with us, and was a great companion to my girls as they were growing up.

[ShotgunBlast]

I have a pit/lab mix that the neighbor abandoned years ago so I just assumed possession. That dog was tied up 24/7 until I took ownership and now she enjoys air conditioned naps on comfortable furniture. I figure they're only with us for a limited time so spoil them as much as you can. Never saw why people bother getting a dog just to leave it in an outdoor pen, but to each their own.

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[Snakester]

I have a friend that had an equally bad experience with RAL. His wife told me that they could have gone to some 3rd world country and adopted a child easier ! They really got lucky when a coworker of hers had to transfer to Texas and could not take their 2 yr. old Chocolate Lab. They have now had the Lab for a little over a yr. and all is well. They have a nice fenced in back yard and we built a very livable dog house that is shaded most of the time. "Choco" does seem to prefer to being out doors but , did enjoy laying by the fireplace this past Winter. I wish you Luck finding a new pet !

[grumpyMSG]

I have heard nothing but wonderful things about the Shenandoah Valley Animal Service Center which is located a short distance off of Interstate 64 near Waynesboro, VA. They do have a bunch of hounds and mixed breed dogs. http://shenandoah.animalshelternet.com/ ... search.cfm shows what is available. Contact them and find out if they will let you have a dog before you fall in love with one again. Good luck on your quest.

[SHMIV]

Last time that I acquired a dog, it came from a person, not an agency.

Next time I see fit to get a dog, I will likely look on Craigslist. I'm not going to even try dealing with an organization that probably believes that they are an adoption agency for furry children. They probably wouldn't like the thought of me having a dog on my truck, anyway.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience.

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[M1A4ME]

Thanks for the link. I go right by Waynesboro on my way home to visit mom.

[scott9050]

I would have lied and done what I was going to do anyway.

[dorminWS]

It could be worse. I should tell y'all about what I went through trying to buy SWMBO a Papillion.

[Reverenddel]

TELL US! TELL US!

P.S. I effin' hate the terms "Fur Children", "Fur Parent", and "Animal Cohabitant".

Step up, be the ALPHA, and say "MASTER"! I know that's a "bad term" outside of lameazz kung-fu movies, but by God, you are an animals MASTER! With that comes responsibilities. Be an honest, and good master.

Ephesians 6:9

[SHMIV]

Damn right, Rev!

Those terms annoy me, too. Nothing wrong with the word "master". Just because overly sensitive hippy types don't like it, doesn't mean the word is less accurate or appropriate. Just means the overly sensitive hippy types are, well, overly sensitive. They can get over it.

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[Swampman]

On my fourth shelter dog. They have all lived inside. Our house has suffered for it, but they have been happy and so have we. Wouldn't have it any other way.

Never had, nor would I allow, a home inspection by some goon who thinks they know better than me.

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[MarcSpaz]

Those people at RAL must be stupid.

We had a pack of Huskies when we lived in RI. Started off with mom and dad, then 5 pups later, it was a full blown pack. They lived outside for more than 12 years, 24x7x365. They had a huge pen and dug a nice deep den in the ground (guess they didn't like the dog houses).

The crazy part was, they loved it... especially when it snowed. I would bring one or two of them at a time in the house a couple times a week just to play a little and brush them out in the garage. After a few minutes, they would literally run to the door and start whining to go back out.

I used to think it was so funny when they would sleep outside in the snow, while its snowing, instead of in the den. I would go outback and call them and see piles of snow stand-up as the dogs shook off the snow and came running over. LOL

Yea, they really need to be in the house day and night. WTH was I thinking?

[M1A4ME]

I remember when we lived in ND for 3 years back in the late 60's.

Our bird dog would lay down on the snow and go to sleep. When we'd look outside we'd have to holler for him to tell where he was unless there only one lump visible. He was a springer spaniel mix and had that long thick hair.

My dad kept his "pack" of springer spaniels and English setters outside up in the WV mountains for over 20 years. They had dog houses to go in at night but were out all day/evening. He always said that as long as a dog have enough food to eat it will not freeze.

I've still got some retirement "stuff" to get straight with DuPont and the folks they pay to administer their retired employees plans/affairs, etc. Once that's done I'm going to start making some day trips to some "country" counties looking for another dog (or two, if old Mickey has gone to be with his brother by then.)

[WRW]

I remember when we lived in ND for 3 years back in the late 60's.

Our bird dog would lay down on the snow and go to sleep. When we'd look outside we'd have to holler for him to tell where he was unless there only one lump visible. He was a springer spaniel mix and had that long thick hair.

My dad kept his "pack" of springer spaniels and English setters outside up in the WV mountains for over 20 years. They had dog houses to go in at night but were out all day/evening. He always said that as long as a dog have enough food to eat it will not freeze.

I've still got some retirement "stuff" to get straight with DuPont and the folks they pay to administer their retired employees plans/affairs, etc. Once that's done I'm going to start making some day trips to some "country" counties looking for another dog (or two, if old Mickey has gone to be with his brother by then.)

Absolutely. Dad would break the ice so the dogs could stand up to their belly in creek water and cool off. Brittany spaniels.

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[dorminWS]

I remember when we lived in ND for 3 years back in the late 60's.

Our bird dog would lay down on the snow and go to sleep. When we'd look outside we'd have to holler for him to tell where he was unless there only one lump visible. He was a springer spaniel mix and had that long thick hair.

My dad kept his "pack" of springer spaniels and English setters outside up in the WV mountains for over 20 years. They had dog houses to go in at night but were out all day/evening. He always said that as long as a dog have enough food to eat it will not freeze.

I've still got some retirement "stuff" to get straight with DuPont and the folks they pay to administer their retired employees plans/affairs, etc. Once that's done I'm going to start making some day trips to some "country" counties looking for another dog (or two, if old Mickey has gone to be with his brother by then.)

Absolutely. Dad would break the ice so the dogs could stand up to their belly in creek water and cool off. Brittany spaniels.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Your dad knew good bird dogs when he saw them.

I once had two of the best Brittany Spaniels that ever pointed a grouse. I used to regularly hunt grouse in these mountains in the snow at temperatures in the 20-30 degree range. Without fail, the first thing my dogs would do when I let them out of the trailer (even before they would do the other first thing any self-respecting bird dog does when you turn it out) was wallow in water and get their bellies wet if they could find any water that wasn't frozen.

Before I got them, because SWMBO was raising hell about my plans to keep bird dogs outside in a kennel, I built them a 2-dog house with plywood inner walls and 2" of Styrofoam insulation in the walls, floor and roof. It also had an entrance tunnel running along the side that they entered below the floor level of the house and climbed a ramp so they had an "air lock" that would trap body heat.

They wouldn't sleep in it. They wouldn't even go in it. It was too warm for them, I guess.

I then built them a plain old dog house for "warm weather". SWMBO insisted that I screw a canvas curtain over the door. The dogs tore it off the house.

Finally, I propped the hinged roof on the fancy dog house (I had hinged it so it could be cleaned out) open about a half-inch so the air could flow in the door, up the ramp, and out through the crack around the edges of the roof. The danged thing was drawing like a chimney. THEN they would use it. I only shut the roof down tight if it got below zero.

I'm pretty firmly convinced that if a Brittany Spaniel can get out of the wind and stay fed and dry you can't freeze it to death in any weather Southwest Va. can produce. Too much heat, however, will kill a good dog in a heartbeat. I saw a damnfool do that to a dog once, but that's another story in the life and times of dormin.

On the other hand, SWMBO's little Papillion was much hairier than my Brittanies but would shiver on the way from the house to the car when it was above freezing. All depends on the dog, I reckon.

[Ironbear]

Those terms annoy me, too. Nothing wrong with the word "master". Just because overly sensitive hippy types don't like it, doesn't mean the word is less accurate or appropriate. Just means the overly sensitive hippy types are, well, overly sensitive. They can get over it.

I prefer "owner" myself. My rescue dog, of 10 years now, doesn't seem to object.

I remember when we lived in ND for 3 years back in the late 60's.

Our bird dog would lay down on the snow and go to sleep. When we'd look outside we'd have to holler for him to tell where he was unless there only one lump visible. He was a springer spaniel mix and had that long thick hair.

For our German Shepherd farm dogs in ND, we would just make sure they had access to a shed and a pile of gunny sacks to sleep in. In MN, knew plenty of Husky/Samoyed types that would whine and cry to go outside to sleep in a snowdrift at -20ºF; also Labs that would break thin ice to go swimming.

IMHO, treating dogs like humans is as offensive as treating humans as dogs. Some people just don't get it though...

[M1A4ME]

Went home (Greenbrier County, WV) this weekend to visit mom.

Thursday we drove over to Lewisburg and walked through the county animal shelter.

Found my dog. He'd been neutered (appears to mean castrated these days). Black, long haired, three white toes on each rear foot, white spot on his chest and under his chin.

When we went in (if you've been to one you know about all the barking, yelping, etc. that goes on when the dogs see you) he was lying on the floor asleep. Yeah, when I poked a finger through the fence/gate he jumped up and looked at me. I petted him a bit and moved on to look at the other dogs. When I came back around the floor he was already back on the floor asleep again (as another finger poked through the wire got another startled jump/jerk out of him. I took him out for a walk, came back in and filled out the paperwork, paid my $85 and headed home with him.

Man, did he smell bad. About 58 lbs. of (I assume they guessed) of 1 year and 4 month old mixed breed dog (the kind I like). He'd had some hair shaved off his belly/hind legs and had thin spots on the hips/lower back due to the shelter taking care of a flea infestation problem he had when he came in.

We got him to my mom's house and washed him out back in a tub. He just stood there and let us wash him and mostly dry him off before we took him to the porch to finish drying him off and letting him rest.

I may have gotten incredibly lucky on this one. I'll relate the weekend and trip back down here just for information.

1. We had him just over 2 days before he ever barked, yelped or whined. He didn't bark at any other dogs when they were behind their fence or any adult. He did bark at some kids that were running up and down the road and playing. The whole time he barked his tail was wagging 90 miles an hour so I don't think he was being aggressive he was just letting us know the kids were there and when they petted him he kept wagging his tail.

2. He pretty much hung around at/under my feet whenever we were outside. We were building a porch for my mom, off here laundry room, and he showed to good habits. Twice I lost track of him and when I looked for him I'd find him sleeping on the upper porch. The second was when my brother would leave the new porch area to get a tool, or supplies the dog would look at me and wag his tail until I told him it was okay to go with Joe, then he'd tear off after my brother and follow him to the shed and then back to the new porch area.

3. He heard my brother up in the garden pulling ears of corn off the stalks and he was looking up there but not barking. I told him it was Joe in the garden and he could go see Joe and he then tore off through the yard and up the path to "see" Joe. Then he came back to me.

4. My wife bought him a toy duck on Friday. She gave it to him and he just stood there with it, at her feet. She told him, "Take it to daddy and he ran down through the yard and dropped it at my feet. He only retrieved it once. The second time I threw it he went to it but did not bring it back to me (smart enough to know I was just going to throw it again???).

5. On the ride back home he wanted to get in my wife's lap at first but eventually spent the trip with his butt/hind legs on the floor and his head in my wife's lap and slept most of the way.

6. When we got home I introduced him to my old dog (15 years old this month) and that big female hound dog and the hound dog was the only one of the bunch that got excited (hair standing up on her neck and down her back). We went for a couple walks before dark, first one on the leash and second one loose, on his own. He stayed pretty close to me except for when my wife came out of the house and then he ran up to see her. He's already playing with the hound dog and other than an occasional nose to nose sniff he's ignoring the old male dog.

I sure hope he continues his great behavior. My mom just kept shaking her head and telling me how lucky I got.

Oh, the name on his tag was "Stash" I don't know why he was named Stash but it sounded funny to me. We've changed his name to "Dash" and I guess it's close enough he has no trouble figuring out we're talking to him. He's got to get used to kibbles and bits/kibbles and chunks as that's what we feed our dogs. He's already in/out of the dog houses and using the carpeted front porch on the big dog house.

Oh, time for the morning walk and treats (he has no issues with the treats by the way).

I've got to call the vet's office today and set up an appointment for a check up (the shelter said he was worm/flea free) and get a heartworm prescription/pills for him to start on.

And when I told the shelter people I was going to keep him outside they looked at me and replied, "Oh, that's fine." It's so good to deal with country people who understand that dogs aren't kids/people.