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Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 04:58:24
by AlanM
Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
(Reuters) - A federal judge ordered Wal-Mart Stores Inc to let shareholders vote on a proposal to force tighter oversight of its sale of high-capacity guns and other potentially offensive products.
U.S. District Judge Leonard Stark in Wilmington, Delaware on Wednesday said the world's largest retailer wrongly excluded such a proposal from Trinity Church, a historic Wall Street church, from its June 6 (2014) annual meeting.
The general consensus so far is that the Walton family and other like minded stock holders will ensure that this goes nowhere.
A poster on another forum posed the question: "I wonder how people of the Trinity Church would react if the Catholic Church wanted Wal-Mart to quit selling condoms."
To which I'd add, "and their pharmacies from selling birth control pills".
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 05:23:50
by MarcSpaz
That is going to be one messy fight. How can such a huge company be forced to honor the will of such a minority? It seems almost unfathomable that the courts would get involved in this and is a huge step over the bounds of the court, IMHO.
As long as the majority shares lay with the corporation, the board of directors should be able to act as they deem necessary and if the church doesn't like it... they can sell their shares and move on.
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 06:28:24
by 0ne5hot
On a serious note...I'm with marc what legal grounds does the court even have to hear a policy issue between stockholders
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:22:28
by Kreutz
0ne5hot wrote:On a serious note...I'm with marc what legal grounds does the court even have to hear a policy issue between stockholders
http://courts.delaware.gov/chancery/
The Delaware Court of Chancery is widely recognized as the nation's preeminent forum for the determination of disputes involving the internal affairs of the thousands upon thousands of Delaware corporations and other business entities through which a vast amount of the world's commercial affairs is conducted. Its unique competence in and exposure to issues of business law are unmatched.
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:53:23
by jdonovan
0ne5hot wrote:On a serious note...I'm with marc what legal grounds does the court even have to hear a policy issue between stockholders
You break the law, the court gets involved. Thats how.
District Judge Leonard Stark in Wilmington, Delaware on Wednesday said the world's largest retailer wrongly excluded such a proposal from Trinity Church, a historic Wall Street church, from its June 6 (2014) annual meeting.
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 10:58:52
by jdonovan
MarcSpaz wrote:As long as the majority shares lay with the corporation,
They don't. about 45% is held by the board members.
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 12:31:15
by 0ne5hot
Okay thanks guys...yeah they are screwed...
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:02:55
by MarcSpaz
Yep.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ] 
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 22:04:26
by grumpyMSG
So the church owns more than 45% ? I don't think so. I would venture the guess that Wally World employees own more than the 10% (in their 401Ks) and most of them would not participate in the voting process. That would mean even if everybody but the board voted for more restrictions, there wouldn't be enough votes to change any of the policies.
Soooooo, in the more rural Walmarts, you will still be able to buy your ARs (I have seen Colts and Sigs locally and reloading supplies in some of them as well.
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 22:29:01
by jdonovan
grumpyMSG wrote:So the church owns more than 45% ? I don't think so.
Reading comprehension fail.
As long as the majority shares lay with the corporation,
They don't. about 45% is held by the board members.
45% of the outstanding shares are owned by the current board members.
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 07:21:39
by Swampman
A little history, past and present, on the church and it's estimated wealth.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/nyreg ... d=all&_r=0
Over the years, the church has sold or given away much of the original 215 acres from Queen Anne, but it has 14 acres, including 5.5 million square feet of commercial real estate.
It reported $158 million in real estate revenue for 2011, the majority of which went toward maintaining and supporting its real estate operations, the financial statement indicates. Of the $38 million left for the church’s operating budget, some $4 million was spent on communications, $3 million on philanthropic grant spending and $2.5 million on the church’s music program, church officials said. Nearly $6 million went to maintain Trinity’s historic properties, including the main church building, which was built in 1846; St. Paul’s Chapel; and several cemeteries, where luminaries including Alexander Hamilton and Edward I. Koch are buried. The remainder went into the church’s equity investment portfolio.
Imagine what 215 acres in Lower Manhattan would be worth today.
Only $38 million "left over" for their operating budget? A paltry sum!
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 12:40:53
by Mindflayer
Churches should not get tax breaks. Period.
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 16:09:16
by dorminWS
Shareholders who bring shareholder's derivative suits to advance social and political causes that do not win at a subsequent shareholders' meeting should have to pay both sides' costs.
That's what this was about. Not that management "broke the law". Just that a minority interest was insisting upon a vote on the ban-large-magazines question at a shareholders' meeting. This would not be in Walmart's best interest or its stockholders'. People shouldn't be allowed to waste other peoples' money on crap like this.
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 00:34:16
by grumpyMSG
jdonovan wrote:grumpyMSG wrote:So the church owns more than 45% ? I don't think so.
Reading comprehension fail.
As long as the majority shares lay with the corporation,
They don't. about 45% is held by the board members.
45% of the outstanding shares are owned by the current board members.
What I was trying to say is if the board controls 45% of the stock that means there is 55% not controlled by the board. If 10%+ were in employees 401Ks, that leaves less than 45% not controlled by the board or in employees 401Ks. Just operating on the 55% non board controlled stock and assuming none of it was in 401Ks, the church would have to convince about 91% of the non board stockholders to vote with their position, an almost impossible task in my estimation.
Re: Judge orders Wal-Mart to let NYC church challenge gun sales
Posted: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 08:19:16
by jdonovan
grumpyMSG wrote:, the church would have to convince about 91% of the non board stockholders to vote with their position, an almost impossible task in my estimation.
tracking now...
I concur a near impossible task, but sometimes just asking the question brings other questions up... if not walmart, can the 2 major share holders of sears that have 45% between them decide to put forth their political/product desires. I don't know that shareholders have really gotten involved in forcing the company to honor their desires for products / product categories. Usually shareholders put board members in place to do that, but this brings up an interesting idea of how the shareholders might be able to override the board.
Allays knew it was possible, but in practice it generally doesn't happen.