Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Should have never dumped them in the first place. A-10 Thunderbolt "Warthog" is one of the slowest, ugliest, best, awesome planes built.

You got a personnel, or armor problem? WARTHOG IT!

Sh!t A-10 Pilots Don't Say:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m7W9_k ... page#t=100

Damn right,thats a bad ass airplane

Are the wobbly goblins next to return to service?

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Some of the idiots in the decision making process forgot the old proverb "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". The F35 was first proposed during the Clinton administration, proposals were developed and later awarded early in the Bush administration. It's development, in my eyes parallels the F111 program of the '60s, the principal difference being they eventually ended most of the F111 program, focusing it on a low-level supersonic penetration role for the USAF instead of a do everything machine. The F35 on the other hand hasn't let go of the V/STOL wish of the USMC and therefore the design requirements limit the other roles and drive up the costs of all models. It is admirable and even arguable that you could merge the roles of the F16 with the F/A18 fighters and have that aircraft outperform both of the others. It is the short takeoff/ vertical landing requirements that make the aircraft less aerodynamically efficient than it otherwise could be for the AF and Navy roles.

In this case the idiot Generals and Admirals, supported by manufacturers and politicians with factories in their districts are saddling all the services with less than optimal aircraft. In the meantime those same clowns are retiring current aircraft to pay for the still uncompleted designs. In this case you could say these are throwing away several birds in their hands for one in the bush.

grumpyMSG wrote:In this case the idiot Generals and Admirals, supported by manufacturers and politicians with factories in their districts are saddling all the services with less than optimal aircraft. In the meantime those same clowns are retiring current aircraft to pay for the still uncompleted designs. In this case you could say these are throwing away several birds in their hands for one in the bush.

You also have the service leaders who are gearing their services to fight the way that they want to fight (the "sexy" war) versus the one that we will actually be engaged in. The Air Force and Navy loves to think that we're going to be involved in some massive air battle that harkens back to the days of WW II, but that simply hasn't been the case, nor will it be.

The reality is that supporting the Army & Marines with CAS is going to be extremely important in the fight against enemy forces that don't have an Air Force or sufficient AA capabilities, and the A-10 fits the bill perfectly (personally, nothing made me feel happier in Afghanistan than hearing the "BBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPP" of the 30mm cannon).

Also, I realize that the capabilities aren't exactly equal, but it amazes me how China and Russia can build similar generation fighters for 1/4 or 1/3 of the cost that we produce the JSF. Lord help us when we have the "thousands" in the fleet that is anticipated in the next decade.

10mmSnob wrote:You also have the service leaders who are gearing their services to fight the way that they want to fight (the "sexy" war) versus the one that we will actually be engaged in. The Air Force and Navy loves to think that we're going to be involved in some massive air battle that harkens back to the days of WW II, but that simply hasn't been the case, nor will it be.

The reality is that supporting the Army & Marines with CAS is going to be extremely important in the fight against enemy forces that don't have an Air Force or sufficient AA capabilities, and the A-10 fits the bill perfectly (personally, nothing made me feel happier in Afghanistan than hearing the "BBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPP" of the 30mm cannon).

Also, I realize that the capabilities aren't exactly equal, but it amazes me how China and Russia can build similar generation fighters for 1/4 or 1/3 of the cost that we produce the JSF. Lord help us when we have the "thousands" in the fleet that is anticipated in the next decade.

I think I had you covered when I used "idiot Generals and Admirals". I agree that they think it will be huge force versus huge force. Realistically since the end of WWII it has been a long series of proxy wars with the US, Russia (or the USSR) and China providing support/arms to one of the other country's opponents. As for China and Russia building aircraft with similar capabilities, some of them do have the sexy looks, but I am really not sure about their capabilities. Russian jets have been proven to be able to maneuver well, but I don't know about the weapon's technology they possess. I have heard that the Chinese jets are equipped with problematic engines. Some industrial espionage/ spying was caught going on by the Chinese too, it will be a long time before we hear how much information got out of the country. but it has to be remembered a lot of the software for the F35 is still being written. As I understand it, as it is currently flying, it still is less capable than any of the aircraft it is supposed to replace.

They think you can do everything with "surgical strikes", in reality there are those moments when you really do want a good healthy dose of overwhelming firepower. If you really wanted to strike fear in the hearts of those who were thinking of joining the Islamic State, the last thing you should do is strike a communications array, they need to level buildings and leave craters. It is really scary how the whole "It's Allah's will" thing, leads them to believe that Allah is protecting them, not the enemy is showing restraint.

If you really wanted an easy fix for the USAF, they should turn over all the A10s to the Air National Guard units, develop a external tank/waterbomber package for them so they can be used to replace the 1960s era S2 trackers/traders in fighting forest fires. Then, do an honest evaluation about the F35 and determine if it would be better to continue down this path or build an improved versions of the F15E and F16s. After that, they need to look at the B52s and AC130s and figure out what needs to be done with them.

grumpyMSG wrote:If you really wanted an easy fix for the USAF, they should turn over all the A10s to the Air National Guard units, develop a external tank/waterbomber package for them so they can be used to replace the 1960s era S2 trackers/traders in fighting forest fires. Then, do an honest evaluation about the F35 and determine if it would be better to continue down this path or build an improved versions of the F15E and F16s. After that, they need to look at the B52s and AC130s and figure out what needs to be done with them.

They'll never get rid of the JSF; they've sunk way too much money into it already. Hell, they're even talking about going back to exploring the second engine idea (which was initially cut for cost savings).

Yeah, we all agree the morons making the decisions are, well, morons.

Just glad the A10 is back. That aircraft has a lot of life left for CAS. The ragheads should be very scared.