Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

if they were to pay ransom to free their son.

I won't bother posting any links because most of us have likely heard this news. If you haven't, do a search using the subject line of this thread.

As a parent, I understand the frustration with having no control over the situations your adult children find themselves in. Anyone with adult children knows this, but most of us have no concept of what it might be like to lose that son or daughter in a foreign country. We rely, because we have been conditioned to rely, upon our government to rescue that son or daughter and save the family unimaginable grief.

Fact is, there is no white horse to ride to the rescue on. Adults, including our children, make decisions that we may not agree with that put them in harms way. Some in the military, some in civilian careers. We hope and pray that they will return to us safe and whole. It doesn't always work out that way.

U.S. policy to not pay ransom is a necessary evil to prevent a spiraling cycle of the capture of Americans simply as a tool to raise funds. Someone will bring up Bergdahl. Don't even go there. I think Obama was an azzhat for trading for him. He's a wartime deserter and should suffer the appropriate punishment. The distasteful point is, we should not be paying ransom or negotiating with terrorists. People make decisions and sometimes the result of those decisions is not to their, or our, liking.

With that said, when the lives of innocent Americans are taken at the hands of others who mean to do us harm, our response should be swift and sure. All countries on the planet should be made aware that we will, without equivocation, enter a sovereign nation for the sole purpose of punishing the perpetrators of such heinous crimes. Once punished, we will depart with all due haste. You might be surprised at how many countries decide to mete out the punishment themselves in order to avoid being "upstaged" by the U.S. Fine, let them do this if they choose. But do this, they must.

Our government is far too worried about perceived insults to countries that harbor these barbarians. We have become weak and ineffective in dealing with other nations, and they see that this is the case. It is far past the time when we should retake our rightful place at the head of civilizations' table. We have saved many of the nations of this planet from the barbarisms of communism, fascism and other atrocities. When these boils on the buttocks of history appear, all turn to the U.S. for help and salvation. Otherwise, we are chastised and told to mind our own business. The hand that feeds has been bitten too often. It is well nigh time to bite back.

Can't argue with that.

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That's a pretty great rant, Jim. I hadn't considered the ransom issue...my initial thought was that the federal government was out of line with threats of prosecution, but your explanation makes me rethink that position.

My favorite statement: "It is far past the time when we should retake our rightful place at the head of civilizations' table."

Thanks for your thoughtful commentary!

I would never pay a randsom for those very reasons. However, because of my appearance and background, I can blend into almost any culture. Even at my age and with my health issues, I wouldn't say anything to anyone, I would just go wherever I needed to and kill every single last person that took my family member. And just befor they die, I would be sure they know why.

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Swampman, I am compelled to agree with you, and would add that any nation that allows such activities to go on unpunished within their borders richly deserves not only to be insulted, but also to be punished.

That said, in all honesty I think if it was my son and I could raise the money, I'd pay the ransom notwithstanding the US government's policy. Perhaps I could live with having lost a son to duty if he were serving his country; but not to the treasonous incompetence of the Obama administration. If they took the money and still killed the prisoner, at least I would have done all I could as a father.

To pay or not to pay. Acceding to the wishes and demands of terrorists is tough when your own flesh and blood is involved. Not being in that position I can't rightly say what I would do. I hope fervently that none of us are ever faced with that decision. I might just hire mercenaries.

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Well said Swampman! Well Said!

I have to go with DorminWS. In theory sounds great to say no negotiation ever in any way.

I do not think you can reasonably ask family not to do all to recover their own. To threaten to damage them further is even worse. Especially considering that our gov't did a crappy job even bothering trying to rescue.

Now if we had a policy that all American citizens will be rescued and if you murder them as hostages hellfire and brimstone will reign down on you (as in you kill them we will move heaven and earth of kill you back).....we could talk about situations like this.

As long as our politicians are lily liveried yellow cowardly dogs I understand families doing all to secure their families safety.

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My thoughts immediately went to hiring some mercs. Glad to see I'm not alone.

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I agree with the early 1800's slogan and current alleged United States policy, "Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."

HOWEVER, under the circumstances I totally agree with the elder Mister Foley when he says “I'd rather be in a prison here, than have my son in a prison over there.”

While United States policy is no negotiation with terrorists, our government traded five senior Taliban officials generally considered to be General Officer or Field Martial grade for one deserter who claims to be ashamed to be an American and doesn't want to be here.

While the United States government alleges to have been doing everything possible to rescue or get James Foley released, Mister Foley's parents were treated like mushrooms. Kept in the dark and fed manure.

Even if the United States was doing everything possible, which I doubt, without informing the Foleys they would have to assume nothing was being done. I don't believe there would have been any breach of security by telling the Foleys what, if anything, was going on.

In my opinion the Secretary of State should be sprayed with poop and shot for stinking.

Understood MBC. If one of my daughters made the decision to go over there in a civilian capacity, I would exhaust all efforts to talk her out of it. If that failed I would arm her with as much information as I could to help her stay safe. If she was captured I'd probably go out of my mind and exhaust all efforts to get her back. Love is stronger than anything on earth I know of. It makes people do things they wouldn't normally do.

I feel for the Foleys. It's easy to talk about it from this side of the fence.

On the other hand, I was just informed that there has been another be-heading by the British beast. Careful, the video starts when you open the page. I did not watch it so I don't know what it shows.

file:/...20Ptrap%20pointer.pdf\

As far as I am concerned, the gloves should now be off. I believe a repeat of Shock and Awe is in order. I'd like to be able to give the civilian population some warning, but, no sense in tipping our hand. It's time to level the playing field.

I can't watch those things.......we really just need to take them out. They are a cancer in humanity, they must be cut out. If I was in the loop I would try like any good surgeon to limit outside damage, but I would get the cancer out.

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Hmmm . . . doesn't look like the video url showed up in my last post.

Now that's funny. It's a pdf file for a new "P" trap for my refrigerator.

If the SC has already ruled money is speech, and since speech is protected by the 1A...how is it the governments business if they pay the random with their own money?

Swampman wrote:Hmmm . . . doesn't look like the video url showed up in my last post.

Now that's funny. It's a pdf file for a new "P" trap for my refrigerator.

I need to see that one my fridge 'Ps' on the floor!

Knowing whats going on over there,if you're stupid enough to go,then you're on your own

I actually considered going over there, once, as a private contractor. I caught wind of what Halliburton was paying truck drivers.

If I didn't have a son with a negligent mother, I probably would have gone. But, I figured it would be better if he had, at least, one parent around.

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I was in a similar position about 6 years ago. The Marine Corps needed contracted Computer and Electronics Engineers. They offered me 3 times my annual rate to sign a 6 month contract at FOB's in the sandbox. There was three 6 month renewal options too. Could have made a small fortune.

I was good with the wife and kids... and Lindsay was actually cool if I left. I turned it down because the DOD refused to let me have a weapon or body armor. I told them I could bring my own weapons and gear... even my own ammo, but they flat out refused. Even attached to a fighting team.. I'm not going into a war zone or a country hostile toward westerners completely unarmed.

Yeah... I seem to recall reading about not being allowed weapons or body armor when researching Halliburton. That probably had something to do with me scrapping the idea, too.

No way in hell I'm entering a war zone, unarmed. That's just stupid.

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Palladin wrote:

Swampman wrote:Hmmm . . . doesn't look like the video url showed up in my last post.

Now that's funny. It's a pdf file for a new "P" trap for my refrigerator.

I need to see that one my fridge 'Ps' on the floor!

If you have a Whirlpool/Maytag/etc. this should stop it. Go to Parts Dr. and search this part number - PD00004900.

This is supposed to be an upgrade to the defrost drain that won't freeze up, and keeps your fridge from P'ing on the floor. I have a Maytag MBF2258XEQ1 (freezer on the bottom).



Now, back to our regularly scheduled program!