Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Hello all!

I was born in WV, moved to the PRNJ (peoples republic of NJ), then to a more gun friendly state in DE where I OC'd regularly. I just moved to Locust Grove, VA this weekend, and have never had a concealed permit before.


VA requires "proof of handgun competency" for the CHP's.....and I see that "Completing any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state" is sufficient proof of competency for the CHP. My question is, is a WV hunter safety education card sufficient for this?

Thanks in advance!

Yes
And for what its worth, the point that you moverd to VA should be proof enough that you are competent.

Welcome to the neighborhood.

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to the club.

Welcome


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wvishome wrote:Hello all!

I was born in WV, moved to the PRNJ (peoples republic of NJ), then to a more gun friendly state in DE where I OC'd regularly. I just moved to Locust Grove, VA this weekend, and have never had a concealed permit before.


VA requires "proof of handgun competency" for the CHP's.....and I see that "Completing any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state" is sufficient proof of competency for the CHP. My question is, is a WV hunter safety education card sufficient for this?

Thanks in advance!

Will it work? Yes.
Should it? No

The acceptance of a hunter safety class is ridiculous. Hunter Safety has about as much to do with concealed carry as bumper cars have to driving on Route 95 at rush hour. The General Assembly should never have allowed for that. Please take a real class with a competent instructor.

and that is coming from a guy who grew up in NJ (Bergen County)........Welcome!

ProShooter wrote:

wvishome wrote:Hello all!

I was born in WV, moved to the PRNJ (peoples republic of NJ), then to a more gun friendly state in DE where I OC'd regularly. I just moved to Locust Grove, VA this weekend, and have never had a concealed permit before.


VA requires "proof of handgun competency" for the CHP's.....and I see that "Completing any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state" is sufficient proof of competency for the CHP. My question is, is a WV hunter safety education card sufficient for this?

Thanks in advance!

Will it work? Yes.
Should it? No

The acceptance of a hunter safety class is ridiculous. Hunter Safety has about as much to do with concealed carry as bumper cars have to driving on Route 95 at rush hour. The General Assembly should never have allowed for that. Please take a real class with a competent instructor.

and that is coming from a guy who grew up in NJ (Bergen County)........Welcome!

I've gotta agree with this advice. Knowing how to carry is one thing, knowing when and how to use it is another. One BIG another...

ProShooter wrote: Will it work? Yes.
Should it? No
The acceptance of a hunter safety class is ridiculous.

Agree, and disagree all at the same time. There is a juxtaposition here.

If I believe that the 2nd is my right to care for my own personal safety, which I do, why should any training be required at all? Do any other of my rights require a training class and certification before I can use them? No. Then why this one?

The other side of me REALLY REALLY feels that there should be a requirement for GOOD, meaningful, beneficial training, from certified trainers, with recertification on an ongoing basis.

Another example of our imperfect world, and imperfect rules.

Virginia is a pretty gun friendly state. You can take an online test to fill the requirements. I don't believe there is any Proof of Competency requirement necessary.

If you are military (or ex-Military with a DD214) that is all you need to show the clerk.

This page will explain the requirements:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf


This page is the application:
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/downloads/SP ... 1-2013.pdf


I used both and had no problem here in New Castle, Va.

If you prefer an online course that will provide a Certificate you can use this for $30.00.

http://www.11bravotraining.com/courses.html

Proof of competency is a term that really does not apply. The VA legislature felt that it had to require some training for those seeking a permit. No standards for it exist, and the available options to meet this training requirement have expanded over the years so that the requirement has become somewhat of a joke. Such are VA's gun politics.

I'm among those who believe that any training requirement mandated by the state for a private citizen to bear arms is unconstitutional. I view the permit itself as also being unconstitutional. But, again such is politics. I view the permit as a special tax on those citizens who want to carry a handgun concealed outside their home. I want to do this and remain within the law, so I'll continue to pay the $10/year special tax to do what should be my right. VA has some other taxes I don't agree with either.

Regarding training, I a big supporter. You should seek it out as any person who owns and especially those who carry needs to know certain information and have certain skills to be a responsible gun owner and user. For most, this is not something they will learn from their parents, especially regarding carrying a pistol. What's needed is real training and not something cooked up to meet the minimum requirements for a VA carry permit.

So do your own research and find some solid training geared to carrying a concealed handgun and using it well. Become a proficient and responsible gun owner and user. That's what responsible people do.

Thanks for all the advice folks. While some of you come across slightly condecending, I'm right there with you on most of your views. I've grown up with guns my entire life and have a deep respect for what owning and carrying one entails, and I've put plenty of practice time in at the range.

To the original question, most agree that my WV Hunter Safety card will be sufficient? (Even though it really isn't "training" that one should probably have?)

Thanks again!

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wvishome wrote:
To the original question, most agree that my WV Hunter Safety card will be sufficient? (Even though it really isn't "training" that one should probably have?)

Thanks again!

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Yes, it should meet the legal requirement.

I set my own standard for this requirement when I first applied, with my thought being 'what do I want to present in court as proof of my training/competency should I ever be required to do so'. In my opinion a prosecutor could have a field day with somebody if they have to defend the use of deadly force by presenting a hunter's safety certificate, DD-214, etc. That said, when I first applied for a CPL (in Michigan) I took a 4-day course at a local college's police academy which included 'crime avoidance' lectures, discussions of legal topics with the local assistant prosecutor, and the standard stuff like firearm safety, fundamentals of marksmanship, etc.

Just something for each person to consider if they decide to apply...do they want to do so under the minimum requirements?

I don't see how a prosecutor could have a field day if one complies with the legal requirements. Regardless, I don't think any type or amount of training would matter in a true SD trial....cops murder people all the time despite the extensive training they've endured.

That said... It requires zero training to OC. Does that make them more culpable than someone with a CHP?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

wvishome wrote:I don't see how a prosecutor could have a field day if one complies with the legal requirements. Regardless, I don't think any type or amount of training would matter in a true SD trial....cops murder people all the time despite the extensive training they've endured.

That said... It requires zero training to OC. Does that make them more culpable than someone with a CHP?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If you met the requirements, you met the requirements. A prosecutor might could try to use arguably minimal safety training to try to make a defendant look like a reckless dumbass who bought a gun and used it without regard to the safety of others because he was just itchin' to shoot somebody (I think they call that being "Zimmermanned" these days), but that's kind of thin and it might not be allowed in any case. But if you can demonstrate that you exceeded the minimum requirements for training and went to some trouble to insure safe, legal and responsible carry and use of your firearm, it might help you make the case that you knew the limits within which a reasonable person may act in self-defense and complied with them.

And dmharvey's getting a little training in the legal underpinnings is, in my opinion, a DANG good idea. What you don't know about the law can get you in as much trouble with a gun as what you don't know about the gun.

And besides, a little extra training won't hurt you none, nohow; RIGHT, Proshooter?

That said... It requires zero training to OC. Does that make them more culpable than someone with a CHP?

Yes it can. If the state can present your lack of training as an evident indicator of negligence, you would most certainly be more culpable.

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so according to you guys nobody better ever defend themselves while open carrying with no training. Got it.

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Some people have the opposite concern. They worry some prosecutor is going to make an issue of their extensive training. For example, "Mr. John Doe here has attended several tactical shooting courses and is a 3-gun competitor who routinely shoots at human-form targets. He is obviously a killer."

Personally, I think too many people worry about all kinds of factors that could possibly affect them in a shooting related self-defense trial. Training, trigger pull weight, ammunition type, and gun modifications are just some examples. If you were legally authorized to use deadly force when you did, then you should be OK in a trial - there are no guarantees though.

Skimping on training is likely to bite you with a negligent discharge, an unintentional law violation, or a failure to defend yourself.

wvishome wrote:so according to you guys nobody better ever defend themselves while open carrying with no training. Got it.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

You know, for a new guy looking for advice (I'm guessing because you don't know), you kinda have a shitty attitude.

Name calling, putting words in people's mouths and being a smart-ass is not a great way to start a new friendship while we are trying to help you... IMHO.

MarcSpaz wrote:

wvishome wrote:so according to you guys nobody better ever defend themselves while open carrying with no training. Got it.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

You know, for a new guy looking for advice (I'm guessing because you don't know), you kinda have a shitty attitude.

Name calling, putting words in people's mouths and being a smart-ass is not a great way to start a new friendship while we are trying to help you... IMHO.

I don't see it. Had a rough day?

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Who me? Not at all. Actually I am in a great mood. Just got done tricking out an AR, had dinner and now I'm going to play some Call of Duty with my buddies.

I did notice the name calling, saying some of us are "condescending", but I just ignored it at first, thinking I was over reacting.

Then in the post I quoted, he put words in the mouths of those replying, saying we said something which we did not. Adding the words "got it" seemed a bit snippy too.

So, maybe I am missing the sarcasm font on my PC, but you put all 3 items together, yea, seems like he is name-calling, putting words in our mouths and being a smart-ass. Thought I was just pointing out the obvious.

But hey. I don't give a rats ass what happens in his life. It doesn't impact me one bit what he does. I was just trying to be friendly and helpful. I got a great life, good friends and some folks waiting for me to hop on the Xbox. LOL