Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Cops have killed well over 5,000 Americans since 9/11. Many of these killings have occurred during no-knock raids, which have risen by 4000% since the 1980s.

Iraqi insurgents, by comparison, have killed around 3,500 Americans in Iraq since 9/11 in Operation Iraqi “Freedom.” It is not just Iraq. The number of Americans killed by police also now exceeds the number of Americans killed by Afghan insurgents.

Afghan insurgents have killed around 2,000 Americans in Afghanistan since 9/11 in Operation Enduring “Freedom.”

The police are getting paid with our money to go on shooting sprees and they are killing more of us than the terrorists from whom they “protect” us.

Do not be too surprised. This data is to be expected; it naturally fits with the fact that the State uses “counter-terrorism” as a means to oppress and initiate violence against the population. In fact, you are eight times more likely to be killed by a cop than by an actual “terrorist.”

More here:

http://filmingcops.com/americans-killed-by-police/

Hmmmmm..... Just by way of idle juxtaposition of numbers, how long does it take for 5,000 people to be killed as a result of so-called "gun violence", and do those numbers the grabbers use include the people cops kill?

What percentage of the "us" that the police "killed" were violent scumbag criminals who threatened innocent people or confronted the police and deserved to be shot?

TomVA wrote:What percentage of the "us" that the police "killed" were violent scumbag criminals who threatened innocent people or confronted the police and deserved to be shot?

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Also a fair question.

It does say many were during "no-knock" raids.

Yeah, violent scumbag criminals like this guy: http://reason.com/reasontv/2014/02/13/p ... 0-year-old

LEOs are becoming rogues, but not very competent ones. They are like the bastard offspring of the Stasi and the Keystone Cops.

Cop 1: "The high school shop teacher is yelling at his wife, guys. Let's get him on the phone and talk him out."
Cop 2: "But we have the MRAP!"
Cop 1: "I never liked shop anyway. Lets get the bastard."

Hammer; meet Nail.

FiremanBob wrote:LEOs are becoming rogues, but not very competent ones. They are like the bastard offspring of the Stasi and the Keystone Cops.

This is because it used to be that only special teams had special gear and TTPs. Cops had to work their way up to that level. Now the TTPs and toys are pushed down to every reserve Barney Fife smart enough not to choke on his own donut.

Has to be painful for the competent cops to have watched this all unfold.

j1mmyd wrote:Has to be painful for the competent cops to have watched this all unfold.

Yes, but like politically aware, active citizens, haven't they become a persecuted minority?

TomVA wrote:What percentage of the "us" that the police "killed" were violent scumbag criminals who threatened innocent people or confronted the police and deserved to be shot?

No doubt there are very bad people who behave very badly and create situations in which police officers have no choice but to use deadly force to defend themselves and protect others. I'm not going to argue with you there: some people just need shot!

That being said, there just seems to be so many stories in the news these days, often with accompanying video, that indicate or clearly show police officers going way overboard with the use of force. There are too many of these outrageous stories for me to want to start listing right now, but they aren't hard to find and some of them have been posted here at VGOF.

Welcome to the militarization of the law enforcement community.

Most of the detectives are personable, and understand you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Some of these Uni's? Directly out of the military? They literally treat the populace as if we're in downtown Fallujah, than in Short Pump, Fairfax, or Williamsburg.

"Stand down", ain't in their vernacular.

TheGunMan wrote:

TomVA wrote:What percentage of the "us" that the police "killed" were violent scumbag criminals who threatened innocent people or confronted the police and deserved to be shot?

No doubt there are very bad people who behave very badly and create situations in which police officers have no choice but to use deadly force to defend themselves and protect others. I'm not going to argue with you there: some people just need shot!

That being said, there just seems to be so many stories in the news these days, often with accompanying video, that indicate or clearly show police officers going way overboard with the use of force. There are too many of these outrageous stories for me to want to start listing right now, but they aren't hard to find and some of them have been posted here at VGOF.

It's a matter of perception. Police are more law abiding than the general public despite the fact that they are hired from that same public. However, they are in a higher profile position and there is a reasonable outrage when they are found to be outside of the law. Fortunately, the use of recording devices helps to prove unlawful activities. Unfortunately, the use of recording devices makes it appear that incidents are increasing.

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Police are more law abiding than the rest of the public?

When have you met a police officer that doesn't speed? I don't.

Did you read that a higher percentage of domestic partners are killed by police than the average citizen? I did.

Did you read about last years 2 assassinations in fair fax, by police? I did.

No, I will not say police are any more law abiding. They just are covered by their departments better.

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So...all departments should be judged as akin to Fairfax? BTW, I'm waiting for the results of the investigation in the Geer case.

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What's he's saying is that hiring practices have become questionable, and due to recording devices, the bad LEO's are getting away with LESS!

Don't get me wrong, I work with some spectacular members of Law Enforcement whom I respect, and think highly. We garner many arrests.

BUT...

I have ran into a few that tried to bully their way thru the system, without paying attention to the rules.

Not sure that all my statements drew on stats from FFX.

What I am saying is you have no basis at all to say LEOs are more law abiding than the rest of the citizenry.

Don't delude yourself into believing they are any better than the rest of us. In fact, as pertains guns, I see a lot lower stats for improper use of guns in thwarting crimes on the part of non LEOs.

I'm not one to say there are good LEOs, we all know that. But as the percentages run, they don't run any better than us, and often appear to run worse.

This is exacerbated by the modern adoption of military training, including desensitization and brutalization. It's a strategy that should never be adopted by LEOs. It's solely meant to train people to kill . Killing is not their job. As a result I think we are seeing the increased killing by police, like those in fairfax.

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Yes, the policies and procedures are being adopted with little concern for the effects of the law enforcement cause. I would not consider that to be a personnel issue, as the personnel are performing in the

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http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/cops- ... z2tLJSEoGD

Lots of stories out there of leo's taking people's lives unnecassarily. They aren't all thugs who deserve what they get. There's way more citizens executed without cause than most want to admit. Most of the stories get buried but, there's still plenty of em out there.

Police departments are becoming increasingly militarized, and thats bad news. I'm not an LEO, but I know some old timer law enforcement types that don't recognize policing compared to when they were cops, 15-20 or more years ago. (Speaking very generally, of course, don't flame me here.)

@ Remek: I know one officer that doesn't speed. He's on the Williamsburg PD. This guy is very much "by the book".

He arrested me once, on an order from his superior. His words on my behalf led to the case being tossed. They even dropped the traffic ticket that started the whole thing.

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