Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Folks - nothing negative occurred in my situation, just that I noticed this a little late on the punch; one of my favorite meals is Chipotle; well they "serve" beer and Margaritas there - so if you are CC'g you need to OC there. I guess because I don't drink much I didn't notice that they offer those refreshments.... oh, well lesson-learned, hope someone else benefits.

So does the Arby's and Captain D's in Short Pump.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought you couldn't carry at all in places that sell and serve alcohol.

Well truth is, "by law" if an establishment has a license to sell alcohol for consumption on their premises, then packing concealed is indeed a no-no. This law really was intended to keep handguns out of bars. Probably a good thing...That said; if your gun is really concealed then there shouldn't be a problem, right?

communicator7 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought you couldn't carry at all in places that sell and serve alcohol.

In Virginia you cannot CC in a restaurant that has an ABC license for on site consumption. Open carry is legal in those restaurants tho. We have what is called the Virginia Tuck where your cover garment is tucked behind your firearm so it is visable thus open carried.

Be careful. The new Flippin' Pizza chain restaurants also serve beer.

I've been wondering about this recently. Are restaurants required to post something somewhere conspicuous that they serve alcohol???

zephyp wrote:I've been wondering about this recently. Are restaurants required to post something somewhere conspicuous that they serve alcohol???

Their ABC license should be posted somewhere near where they display their business license. Generally, in a conspicuous location near the door. The business license must be "Displayed prominently". I can't find a cite for either one at the moment though.

fireman836 wrote:

communicator7 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought you couldn't carry at all in places that sell and serve alcohol.

In Virginia you cannot CC in a restaurant that has an ABC license for on site consumption. Open carry is legal in those restaurants tho. We have what is called the Virginia Tuck where your cover garment is tucked behind your firearm so it is visable thus open carried.

Fireman's response is the only one so far that was correct (plus add "clubs" - restaurants and clubs, like the VFW Hall, American Legion, etc).

If you go into a restaurant or club that has an ABC license to serve onsite, you must open carry.

Now, please be careful with the Virginia Tuck thing. Virginia Tuck is a made up term that holds no legal standing in the Code of Virginia. There has never been a court case to decide if that manner of carry is open or concealed. Many of us feel that it is borderline concealed. Everyone touts the Virginia Tuck nonsense like its a law and I'm afraid someone will get jammed up one day.

ProShooter wrote: Now, please be careful with the Virginia Tuck thing. Virginia Tuck is a made up term that holds no legal standing in the Code of Virginia. There has never been a court case to decide if that manner of carry is open or concealed. Many of us feel that it is borderline concealed. Everyone touts the Virginia Tuck nonsense like its a law and I'm afraid someone will get jammed up one day.

Why does this matter - "never been a court case for the tuck" If you tuck properly the weapon in openly carried. The term doesnt need to be in VA or any other code. The weapon is clearly displayed period. I dont think anyone touts it as nonsense or law. Its merely an expedient way to switch from CC to OC or vice versa and it works quite well if you are wearing a loose cover garment.

zephyp wrote:

ProShooter wrote: Now, please be careful with the Virginia Tuck thing. Virginia Tuck is a made up term that holds no legal standing in the Code of Virginia. There has never been a court case to decide if that manner of carry is open or concealed. Many of us feel that it is borderline concealed. Everyone touts the Virginia Tuck nonsense like its a law and I'm afraid someone will get jammed up one day.

Why does this matter - "never been a court case for the tuck" If you tuck properly the weapon in openly carried. The term doesnt need to be in VA or any other code. The weapon is clearly displayed period. I dont think anyone touts it as nonsense or law. Its merely an expedient way to switch from CC to OC or vice versa and it works quite well if you are wearing a loose cover garment.

Not nearly as much of an issue if using a belt holster as opposed to an IWB holster. I can see where tucking behind an IWB could be seen as borderline, especially if you're not paying attention and your cover becomes "untucked".

can someone describe the "virginia tuck" to me? First i've heard of that.

We did the Virginia Tuck yesterday at Ruby Tuesday in Culpeper. Got a look or two but got GREAT service!
Virginia Tuck is simply tucking your shirt in behind your gun holster so your weapon is exposed to everyones sight. Makes it so simple to go from CC to OC and back again if needed.

I Virginia Tuck with my 91/30 Nagant all the time. Amazing service too. Just kidding.

Serious question: Do these laws also exist for NC? I do not have a CCW yet, but if I do get one, I want to obviously be well inside the law on it.

In NC you cannot carry in establishments that serve alcohol. Period.

The Virginia Tuck. Say you have your sidearm on your right hip in an OWB holster. You choose to conceal by wearing your one-size-too-large t-shirts untucked and thereby "concealing" your sidearm from common observation.

In all but the wackiest of circumstances let's assume that you do not print while concealing in this manner.

When you enter an establishment that has an ABC license for ON-SITE consumption (grocery, convenience and ABC stores are ABC-OFF) you grab the cuff off your t-shirt and stuff it behind the grip/hammer/magazine end of your sidearm, effectively "un"concealing it.

It was named the "Virginia" Tuck probably by a Virginian (yay, us!) because some yutz thinks that a concealed firearm is somehow more dangerous than one that is openly carried and so the most law-abiding of us who choose to conceal regularly still honor the law and switch to OC mode upon entering such an establishment.

But the antis are afraid we'll go nuts and start shooting people if we're allowed to conceal and dine. "They" say it invites mischief and disorderliness. They, of course, are wrong.

I sure hope I helped some. That was a pretty verbose response.

I do carry and tuck with an IWB and dont consider it borderline. The law simply says cannot be concealed. I havent seen it qualified anywhere by stipulating the type of holster that must be used. I even occasionally tuck while carrying Mexican style.

Guess I'm in trouble with my bellyband at the American Legion or just slide it to the front and unbutton my shirt

When the owner of the local pizza joint can pick out my handgun being carried in a IWB holster with my shirt tucked in and the grip showing in a dimly lit restaurant I don't think that could even slightly be considered concealed. Even the looks from the yankee customers tell me I'm legal.

allingeneral wrote:

zephyp wrote:

ProShooter wrote: Now, please be careful with the Virginia Tuck thing. Virginia Tuck is a made up term that holds no legal standing in the Code of Virginia. There has never been a court case to decide if that manner of carry is open or concealed. Many of us feel that it is borderline concealed. Everyone touts the Virginia Tuck nonsense like its a law and I'm afraid someone will get jammed up one day.

Why does this matter - "never been a court case for the tuck" If you tuck properly the weapon in openly carried. The term doesnt need to be in VA or any other code. The weapon is clearly displayed period. I dont think anyone touts it as nonsense or law. Its merely an expedient way to switch from CC to OC or vice versa and it works quite well if you are wearing a loose cover garment.

Not nearly as much of an issue if using a belt holster as opposed to an IWB holster. I can see where tucking behind an IWB could be seen as borderline, especially if you're not paying attention and your cover becomes "untucked".

You've hit part of the issue, but there is more.

Usually when someone is doing the Virginia Tuck, they are doing so in an IWB. An IWB by design and by many advertiser's descriptions is a "concealment holster". With an IWB, a good majority of the gun and holster is concealed within the pants, with usually just the grip area showing. The part inside the pants is not visible which is different than a holstered pistol in an OWB where the holster area is the majority of what someone sees below the grip.


Think of it in terms of percentage for example. Using an IWB and doing the Virginia tuck will show perhaps 30% of the gun, meaning a good portion of it is concealed. An OWB shows the same 30% of the grip but the other 70% is visible holster. I have presented this to 2 different prosecutors that I know and each had a different opinion. That's why I always tell my students to carry in an OWB when you are required to carry openly.

My apologies, Jim, but I aint buyin it about the IWB. The code states "hidden from common observation." If I'm carrying an IWB and tuck properly my pistol is not hidden from common observation and is clearly visible. If you can show me in the code where it talks about percent visible or other than "hidden from common observation" then I'll be convinced.