Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Since I recently found out my history degree and my historical knowledge is severely lacking in several areas I have been endeavoring to find primary sources and secondary sources to augment my knowledge of where we are and why we are where we are at, and who and what we should be.

It is becoming clear to me that what the Marxists are attempting to implement in our country has been tried many many times. It always results in suffering, mass poverty, death and general disorder in a society. Those at the top who implement it are just as likely to suffer as those at the bottom usually more spectacularly. So why, in the name of all that is holy, are the democrats or any American going along with it.

I understand that by my very nature I am naive. Perhaps that comes of being a Christian since I was 13 and working hard at not permitting evil to ferment in me and being self-governed in my conduct. So I tend to be surprised when others are not the same. But surely self interest would tell those in power "you can lose your head too!" "You can be sent to the same gulags as you send others." Surely they can see that it has not worked in any nation that this has been tried in . Surely they give a darn about their own skin.


Perhaps those who are older or simply more wise in the ways of the world can enlighten me. I am simply becoming perplexed by the magnitude of what is going on and the fact that we all know (or should know) where this is going.

Mods....I was not sure where to put this. It kind of fed into several categories.....please move it if you feel it belongs in some other category.

Good question. Your presumptions, namely that we should be able to see it for what it is, are what we all want to know. Educating yourself is a good thing. I read all the time, and don't spend much time on "news." Much easier to figure things out if you read well researched and documented material. One of the subjects that I have found people know little about is economics. Ask someone and they'll tell you economics is about money. Not completely true. Thomas Sowell writes in his book Basic Economics, that "economics is the study of the efficient use of scarce resources that have alternative uses." If you understand that everything is a resource, and scarce to some degree depending upon supply and demand, it helps you to understand why we have arrived at this point in our history. But economics is one small part of understanding why we are here. Good luck on your quest.

Because for the small number of evil masterminds who run the Left, the results are not misery and poverty, but greater power, riches, royal lifestyles, and perhaps most important, revenge against their "enemies".

FiremanBob wrote:Because for the small number of evil masterminds who run the Left, the results are not misery and poverty, but greater power, riches, royal lifestyles, and perhaps most important, revenge against their "enemies".

The life of the Inner Party is sweet indeed.

For the Outer Party and the Proles....screw 'em.

Except that nearly every time those who implement these policies or their children still suffer from them or from the people rising up against them. Often their fall is more spectacular than the little people. It would be like ordering a steak dinner that will taste great this minute but will poison and likely kill you in a week. Any sane person would say...."no thanks, I'll take the oatmeal."

So what do I make of those pushing known failed policies? Are they ignorant? Are they insane? Are they like druggies living only for the next power high to the devil with the consequences? It just makes no sense.

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I just can tell you my own observations, living under the system.
There are 2 categories of left/socialist/communists.
First, the many, are just "useful idiots" with good intentions. Because of their lack of capacity to think and analyze reality, they believe that the ideals they share will make a better society. But because they are not capable of generating their own ideas, they swallow and regurgitate the ideas generated by...
Second, few, are those who see this change as an opportunity to go up on social ladder, to get rich and powerful. They steer the useful idiots. They are smart and very dangerous.
When time comes, take care to clean the evil from the root. We shot Ceausescu and put couple more in prisons, but thousand others were forgotten. After staying hidden couple years, they are running now my country, became rich and destroying (again) the whole country. We have lost our opportunity to clean up. Don't do the same mistake.
If you follow the left media, you can easily notice that there are just a handful who steer the wheel, and 99% just repeat the slogans.

mamabearCali wrote:Except that nearly every time those who implement these policies or their children still suffer from them or from the people rising up against them. Often their fall is more spectacular than the little people. It would be like ordering a steak dinner that will taste great this minute but will poison and likely kill you in a week. Any sane person would say...."no thanks, I'll take the oatmeal."

So what do I make of those pushing known failed policies? Are they ignorant? Are they insane? Are they like druggies living only for the next power high to the devil with the consequences? It just makes no sense.

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All the extremely wealthy former Demorat politicians enjoying their mansions in NoVa, Westchester, and NorCal would disagree with you. They don't see any fall coming, and if their election fraud Death Star is fully operational by now, they may be right. One of them, until the revolving door recently made him a politician, is your new Governor.

mamabearCali wrote:Except that nearly every time those who implement these policies or their children still suffer from them or from the people rising up against them. Often their fall is more spectacular than the little people. It would be like ordering a steak dinner that will taste great this minute but will poison and likely kill you in a week. Any sane person would say...."no thanks, I'll take the oatmeal."

So what do I make of those pushing known failed policies? Are they ignorant? Are they insane? Are they like druggies living only for the next power high to the devil with the consequences? It just makes no sense.

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Wealth (the mind-numbing kind they have) insulates you from damn near anything.

The super rich of Rio de Janeiro simply travel from high rise to high rise or to country villas via helicopter to avoid the proles.

http://livinginbrazil.blogspot.com/2011 ... paulo.html

There is a trend control following that of Mass Society rather than any singular form of the left. This would explain why the various policies and systems which are in motion continue to be so even with so many short comings. Why would one care if a system is efficient if the goal is control? As long as they, being all persons in a state or society, have invested time and money while having no alternatives. Your kids won't remember any different and with each passing generation less and less variation will be apparent. It is a tangent that all governments slowly adapt towards, to be more necessary in all subjects lives, to make slaves of them.

The healthcare law is inefficient, unwanted, and even shunned by its initial supporters. But if its corpse can be resurrected the government will further be the provider to many, a savior. The income tax now is a norm but it hasn't always been. Give any collar and chain to generation and they will buckle but their children will be used to the weight, even feel naked without it.

The right is no better answer, even if they seem to be on our side now. I remember how Democrats and Republicans could put down their political differences in the name of protecting national security a la slowing the NSA leak. Similarly, how the proposed Republican Pres. Candidate Chris Christie vetoed some of the various gun control measures which came his way, measures which he supported and helped bring into being.

I don't know. Chris and I see the tax $ go out and would ditch the IRS in a heartbeat and we have lived with it our whole lives.

Chris lived in NY his childhood and got out of there his firs topper tuning and we would never move back. Just cause tyranny has been enforced dos not necessarily follow that it is accepted.

I thnk the worst problem we have is what Kelu said about the useful idiots. There is a whole class of people sucking on a govt teat. If the truely evil people did not have them voting and backing them up on their evil their would be much less opportunity.

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I look at the predicament a little differently. History has shown that man's natural tendency is toward evil and self-destruction. Only in Christ has man been able to develop the ideals that made this country great, which when you think about it, was the first country to break the dictator / monarchy mold successfully. But once the dependence on God is gone, we are simply back to the inmates running the asylum. The Bible tells us peoples' hearts will be hardened against the truth. Greed, pride, spiritual blindness; without dependence on God, man is just seeking his own failed ways. Rinse and repeat. Others may disagree.

Because people don't READ anymore

"The problem with being too busy to read is that you learn by experience (or by your men’s experience), i.e. the hard way. By reading, you learn through others’ experiences, generally a better way to do business, especially in our line of work where the consequences of incompetence are so final for young men.

Thanks to my reading, I have never been caught flat-footed by any situation, never at a loss for how any problem has been addressed (successfully or unsuccessfully) before. It doesn’t give me all the answers, but it lights what is often a dark path ahead.

With [Task Force] 58, I had w/ me Slim’s book, books about the Russian and British experiences in [Afghanistan], and a couple others. Going into Iraq, “The Siege” (about the Brits’ defeat at Al Kut in WW I) was req’d reading for field grade officers. I also had Slim’s book; reviewed T.E. Lawrence’s “Seven Pillars of Wisdom”; a good book about the life of Gertrude Bell (the Brit archaeologist who virtually founded the modern Iraq state in the aftermath of WW I and the fall of the Ottoman empire); and “From Beirut to Jerusalem”. I also went deeply into Liddell Hart’s book on Sherman, and Fuller’s book on Alexander the Great got a lot of my attention (although I never imagined that my HQ would end up only 500 meters from where he lay in state in Babylon).

Ultimately, a real understanding of history means that we face NOTHING new under the sun."
Gen. "Mad Dog" Mattis

http://www.businessinsider.com/viral-ja ... nes-2013-5

when a guy with the nickname Mad Dog tells you to READ...you READ ALOT

0ne5hot wrote:Because people don't READ anymore

It is no coincidence that socialism chose to preach their ideas to the poor. They are easier to fool than more educated, richer people. Those who can think for themselves (and are willing to work and sweat to succeed) are less prone to fall into the trap.
And going to a college and getting a degree is not equal to education.

kelu wrote:

0ne5hot wrote:Because people don't READ anymore

It is no coincidence that socialism chose to preach their ideas to the poor. They are easier to fool than more educated, richer people. Those who can think for themselves (and are willing to work and sweat to succeed) are less prone to fall into the trap.
And going to a college and getting a degree is not equal to education.

sometimes i can't help but wonder what NSA agents think they see my purchase history ...The Theory of Moral Sentiments by Adam Smith, Liberalism by Ludwig von Mises, The Federalist Papers by Alexander Hamilton, and some Heavy Metal in the same order

No joke Kelu. I am reeducating myself after discovering my education was less than adequate. However what it did teach me is how to evaluate a hisotrical document. It also taught me how to use punctuation, so that is a good thing,

Unfortunately, I am finding out much of what I was taught as fact was, in truth, propaganda, I found out that the inadequacies of the curriculum and the places where the teacher said we don't have time to cover X was most likely calculated. It is a sad thing.

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mamabearCali wrote:Unfortunately, I am finding out much of what I was taught as fact was, in truth, propaganda, I found out that the inadequacies of the curriculum and the places where the teacher said we don't have time to cover X was most likely calculated. It is a sad thing.

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I was always told that there are 3 sides to every story YOUR'S, MINE, and The TRUTH

0ne5hot wrote:

kelu wrote:

0ne5hot wrote:sometimes i can't help but wonder what NSA agents think they see my purchase history ...The Theory of Moral Sentiments by Adam Smith, Liberalism by Ludwig von Mises, The Federalist Papers by Alexander Hamilton, and some Heavy Metal in the same order

Welcome to "the list".
When communists in my country put the intellectuals and "free thinkers" in prison, it was like an Academy. Nowhere in the country could find more knowledge than in those cells. Unfortunately, most have died there. Same in China.
Governments fear knowledge. Look what law passed in Japan these days. Even what is constitutes a secret, is a secret. Mind boggling.

kelu wrote: Welcome to "the list".
When communists in my country put the intellectuals and "free thinkers" in prison, it was like an Academy. Nowhere in the country could find more knowledge than in those cells. Unfortunately, most have died there. Same in China.
Governments fear knowledge. Look what law passed in Japan these days. Even what is constitutes a secret, is a secret. Mind boggling.

the thing that blows my mind is that I'm in my mid 20s and when I talk with people my own age most times I feel like I'm the main character in the movie Idiocracy (definitely worth the $10 on Amazon for the dvd if you have not seen it)

0ne5hot wrote:

kelu wrote: Welcome to "the list".
When communists in my country put the intellectuals and "free thinkers" in prison, it was like an Academy. Nowhere in the country could find more knowledge than in those cells. Unfortunately, most have died there. Same in China.
Governments fear knowledge. Look what law passed in Japan these days. Even what is constitutes a secret, is a secret. Mind boggling.

the thing that blows my mind is that I'm in my mid 20s and when I talk with people my own age most times I feel like I'm the main character in the movie Idiocracy (definitely worth the $10 on Amazon for the dvd if you have not seen it)

Or the $1.99 to stream it on Amazon.

FiremanBob wrote:

0ne5hot wrote:

kelu wrote: Welcome to "the list".
When communists in my country put the intellectuals and "free thinkers" in prison, it was like an Academy. Nowhere in the country could find more knowledge than in those cells. Unfortunately, most have died there. Same in China.
Governments fear knowledge. Look what law passed in Japan these days. Even what is constitutes a secret, is a secret. Mind boggling.

the thing that blows my mind is that I'm in my mid 20s and when I talk with people my own age most times I feel like I'm the main character in the movie Idiocracy (definitely worth the $10 on Amazon for the dvd if you have not seen it)

Or the $1.99 to stream it on Amazon.

I'm old school lol