Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Anyone have a suggestion for a decent gun safe in the $400 - $700 range?

Only need it for a few rifles and prefer that it have some fire resistance.

I got a 10 gun safe from Tractor Supply about 2 years ago, its made by Sentry and has a dial combo, not a keypad.

Ive been thrilled with it! Its a real gun safe, not a gun locker.

The closest I can can find is the Liberty 12 gun...


http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/p ... k&i=732691

GL,
JC

Looks nice and I found a dealer for those nearby.

Thanks!

My son, who is a volunteer fireman who has had considerable training and was a sometime instructor for the state, tells me that any gun that comes out of the kind of gun safes typically sold at places like Walmart, Cabela's Tractor Supply, etc. after a typical housefire will almost surely be ruined. The locksmith that fixed my 36-gun Cannon safe after we dropped it that time sort of snickered and told me that all my gun safes (the Cannon and Liberty Centurions) were easy pickin's for anybody that knew his onions about breaking into them. So even though I have several gun safes and use them, I have reservations about just how much good they'll do me. It's a good thing that after that tragic boating accident all I have in my gun safes is my priceless collection of Roy Rogers cap busters. Because a sharp thief or a middlin' hot fire would cost me my guns if I still had any.

Did a quick search on Yahoo and came up 2with the following on temperatures and durations of fires:
........................................
ANSWER #1:
The temperature range of a house fire is from1200 deg. for 20 minutes to 1700 deg. for 1 hour. - See more at: http://www.chacha.com/question/what-is- ... fhT3x.dpuf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ANSWER #2:
Depends on whether it is arson. Average fire will burn somewhere between 700 and 900 Deg. C. Arson will have hot spots up to and sometimes beyond 1200 Deg. C. When your pyroceram casseroles start melting, look for arson. With no urathane foam in furnature or rug backing, a house that is just wood burning but being fanned by a stiff breeze can and will hit 500-800. As Quisnoze says, "toasty." Lots of variables.
Source:
Firefighter for 25 (volunteer) and 35 industrial. Also worked with glass and ceramic viscosity expert working on glass and ceramic melting/slumping temperatures for input to an arson manual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ANSWER #3:
Well I can tell you that the ceiling temperature of a free burning room is at or about 2000 degrees. The average temp of the room is closing in on 1000 degrees. Now a bunch of stuff comes into play. Has it been vented? Are the windows intact has it burned through the roof? These factors will come into play into the actual room temps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
QANSWER #4:
Typical temperatures of fires and flames
• Oxyhydrogen flame: 2000 °C or above (3600 °F)[7]
• Bunsen burner flame: 1,300 to 1,600 °C (2,400 to 2,900 °F)[8]
• Blowtorch flame: 1,300 °C (2,400 °F)[9]
• Candle flame: 1,000 °C (1,800 °F)
• Smoldering cigarette:
o Temperature without drawing: side of the lit portion; 400 °C (750 ° F); middle of the lit portion: 585 °C (1,100 °F)
o Temperature during drawing: middle of the lit portion: 700 ° C (1,300 °F)
o Always hotter in the middle.

Thanks for the info.

I'm basically wanting the safe for three reasons:

1) To keep anyone from being able to walk in my closet and immediately grab whatever is there.

2) To legally protect myself from whatever government sob might want to bother me. Even though it's none of their business, I can still say that what I have is in a locked safe.

3) To have enough fire resistance to give the fire department time to get things under control before the ammo goes off. (Since I'm near them, I don't need much time)

bryanrheem wrote:http://www.costco.com/.product.11625662 ... InCategory

I was looking at that, but I prefer the combo locks.

Godfather, that's precisely the way I look at it. I reckon that comes under the heading of just doing the best you can. A truly secure gun safe that would withstand a hot fire of a couple of hours' duration would cost a war debt. I've got a few solid notions about building a gun vault, but I'll have to change houses first; and I just don't know if I'll ever get around to that.

Back when I first got married, I couldn't stand it until I got me a nice wooden 12-gun gun cabinet with a glass door. By the time I went to grad school in Charlottesville, you can imagine the attention that drew on the few occasions fellow students (most of them yankee yuppies) caught sight of it in my living room. A couple of them were obviously intimidated by the display of firearms in my home. You'd have thought I had a box of rattlesnakes on the freakin' coffee table; and this was in the late '70s! About that time, I began to figure out that displaying firearms behind glass in the living room or den was not such a good idea any more. So even a cheap gun safe is a good idea these days; and ought to be kept in a part of your home where strangers and casual acquaintances do not normally go.

For once I won't wrote a long reply.

I keep things simple. The weight, cost, and hassle of these fire safes is too much to bother with unless you're getting much better quality than what is typically found (e.g. Brown Safes). The security isn't any better than the basic gun cabinet because the steel is no thicker. Also, the fire protection is just drywall; that often means the firearms are rusted due to humidity contained or annealed by the fire and unsafe to shoot (IMHO).

Thus, I would go for basic security and no perceived fire protection of something like this (cheaper than your budget): http://www.stack-on.com/categories/secu ... n-cabinets

Or go all out and get a real security/fire safe like these (not even close to your budget): http://www.brownsafe.com/categories/com ... _safes.htm

Either my guns are just tools (e.g. HD/SD, training .22s) and are a dime a dozen, or the are very valuable and I want the Brown. That's just my two cents. YMMV.

Didn't think about the humidity. Good to know.

TheGodfather wrote:Didn't think about the humidity. Good to know.

FYI, I don't have personal experience with this (never had a fire). That's the summary of what I can find posted on the Internet from people who have had fires. Also, from talking to JD who IIRC, had more knowledge on this particular phenomena.

You might be able to enhance the fire resistance of your existing safe by taking out the gypsum board, lining it with something like this ceramic fiber spun blanket, and then re-installing the gypsum board. Maybe make a curtain to hang in front of the door over the guns to deal with heat transfer around the door frame. They also have board, paper, and rope of the same material. And the price doesn't seem to be ruinously high, either. Might also be worth investigating painting the outside of the safe with intumescent latex fire resistant paint for another layer of protection.

http://www.ceramicfiberonline.com/ceram ... 381024300/

You should check Dick's.....Last year they had a great Black Friday Sale. I bought a 48 Gun Sentry Stack On and Applied for a Dick's Credit Card and got another 10% off !

I just bought this safe:

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/produ ... d=21661626

and set it up in my basement last week. So far, I'm pretty happy with it. I could not have fit anything larger down the steps and into my basement. It seems pretty sturdy, and the entire thing weighed about 500 pounds. I have about a half-dozen long guns, and the same number of pistols. The pistols are stored in pouches mounted to the door with velcro. The long guns are on one side of the safe, and the other side holds my ammo and magazines.

I think you can get that safe cheaper if you go to the store.

At the price point you are talking about the true quality isn't going to be much different between the brands.

In the 'burbs house fires are going to fall into 2 general categories....
Room & contents, and out 3-5 min after the FD arrives.
Basement & chimney saved. Whole thing goes up because its unsafe to enter and fight when we get there.

#1 any safe with a few layers of drywall board will save you from.
#2 nothing but a vault with feet of concrete will help.

Security on a $500 safe will be entirely dependent on getting it bolted to wall and/or floor so it can't be knocked over and pried open.

The other thing on $500 safes is a 18v cordless drill & saw will have me through the side in < 15 min.

Will it stop the 5 min smash grab and get gone... yes. Anyone with a few tools and some time will get in fairly easily . Oh they don't need to bring the tools if you have them in your house, and they can borrow them.

ALL safes buy you is time. do what you can to reduce the time they can, or want to spend in the house.

Get a liberty/cannon/costco etc.. Bolt it down, and get an alarm so the guy doesn't feel he has the 15 min to screw with it.