OC Debate - How far is too far?

[MarcSpaz]

So, I saw a video about this kid getting questioned by Klamath Falls, OR police for open carry. The police received complaints and found this young man walking around. Turns out he was carrying a pistol and an MP5.

So, I am all about open carry. I OC 3 to 5 times a week. The rest of the time it's covered. I don't want to be harassed by the police, but I can understand there is a comfort level for everyone around me that "should be" considered as well.

So, skip fishing, hunting, sport outings, trips to the range or gun shows, etc. Lets look at going to dinner, the mall, for a stroll with the wife/husband or just about any other causal event. Is my strapping on my M4 and a rifleman's sub-load pouch or my MP5 and LBE too much and just asking for trouble or should people just get over it?

I don't know. I don't want to loose any more of my gun rights, but I would question a guy walking his dog at 3:00 PM with an AR-15 platform rifle strapped to his body. At the same token, if there has been a rash of robberies or violent crimes around my house, I would want that as an option.

I'm torn. What do you all think?

[SHMIV]

I'm an OC guy, too, so maybe I am biased. I don't think that there is a too far, except maybe trying to stick around somewhere after being asked to leave.

Or, maybe, driving your tank to church while dressed in full out battle gear.

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[DiscipleofJMB]

I haven't OC'd a long gun because I haven't felt a need to. I don't even carry a pistol because I feel I "need" it, but it would certainly be nice to have should things go badly while I'm out and about and is easy to tote around.

I am of the mindset that a long gun (especially a rifle) is mainly an "offensive" weapon - and while useful for defense, I don't see any situation where you would need one from day to day, while you go about your business. Driving around the farm and looking for wild hogs or varmints, that's different. So is an armed insurrection, civil war, alien invasion (from space, not Mexico), zombie apocalypse, etc.

There's an adage of not "frightening the horses" when carrying, and I agree in most situations, carrying a long gun does us more harm than good. Organized carry rally? Cool. Fishing for police attention to make a point is unwise, I think.



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[FiremanBob]

I think one should carry appropriately for the situation one reasonably expects to encounter, keeping in mind that reasonably we expect to encounter nothing that would require self-defense and that any incident represents a worst-case. Fortunately, incidents are extremely rare these days, but that could change.

Most of the time a concealed handgun (with backup mag) should be plenty, and carrying a long gun would be "overarmed". (I know, some guys will say there is no such thing as "overarmed", we'll just have to disagree.) But that could change in some circumstances.

It could be neighborhood-dependent. For example, the two reporters who were beaten into critical condition by a mob in VA Beach last summer would reasonably have ARs or carbines in their vehicle.

It could depend on the condition of the social fabric. For example, if, as some predict, riots break out after the Zimmerman trial, or gangs of zombies start accosting cars in urban traffic as happens in Africa, long guns would be completely reasonable.

But I think that carrying a long gun in normal situations today is conspicuous and unnecessary, and you should expect the scared sheeple to whine to the cops about you.

[ShotgunBlast]

A right not exercised is a right soon lost. However, your actions have consequences so expect the police harassment.

Is having a rifle strapped to you going to help while you're out and about? Probably not. Will it show that rifles don't have a mind of their own and needlessly slaughter people in public places? Sure.

To each their own.

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[ShotgunBlast]

As a side note, I'm not a fan of d-bags that do this crap just to put it on YouTube. I do wish more localities had officers like this one though.

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[dorminWS]

How about this take on it:

It's OK, if perhaps a bit extreme, to open carry an AR-15 in a residential or commercial street setting. That means it is legal, but very unusual and therefore it might cause consternation among folks who are timid, gun-phobic, or just uninformed.

It is also OK for a LEO to walk up and ask why the gun is being carried, in my opinion; just as it is OK for him to walk up and ask you about your cool car or sunglasses just as any other person on the street might do. (in fact, a GOOD cop ought to handle it in that non-confrontational manner anyway, IMO) But it ought to stop right there. If the answer is, "to exercise my 1st Amendment rights" or "I'm going to the shooting range", even just "because I can" or "that's my business", then absent some adequate probable cause that a crime been has or is about to be committed, the officer should just say, "have a nice day" and leave the guy alone.

I've also gotta say that people who contrive to exercise their 1st Amendment rights in a such an in-your-face manner calculated to be offensive to certain people (absent some damn compelling provocation) do not do our cause as gun-owners any good.

[DiscipleofJMB]

There are plenty of good points here. I'm not necessarily anti-long-gun OC I just don't see the point from my perspective. Maybe if someone throws down a gauntlet and threatens to engage me in a sniper duel as I'm walking to pick up a cup of coffee, but that hasn't happened yet (thank God).



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[SHMIV]

Supposing I find it necessary to be armed, but all I own is a rifle? Why must I be compelled to purchase a pistol for the purpose of carrying?

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[Alex]

My opinion (LEO here, btw) is that we have gotten away from common sense on both sides.

LEO's need to take a step back and approach the issue differently. OC'ers are not the enemy, they are normal, law-abiding citizens, who often share mutual interests in firearms.

OC'ers need to go back to lawfully exercising their rights for the right reasons (protecting yourself and your family, and exercising your second amendment rights) rather than to provoke reactions, and make political points/make others uncomfortable.

I have never once in the course of my duties had a negative encounter with an OC'er. I have in fact, had many positive encounters. Most of the time, we end up talking guns, even exchanging contact info to go shooting sometime.

Seriously guys, we're adults. Act like it.

[DiscipleofJMB]

^^^Well said.

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[MarcSpaz]

Hey guys... it looks like there are some pretty good points here. I think for me personally I would do it if I had a valid reason, but instigating a situation with law enforcement to make a You Tube video would not be one of them.

[SHMIV]

Carrying to instigate and/or provoke is just stupid and immature. As Alex pointed out, we are adults and we should behave as such as far as firearms are concerned.

That said, I believe that if I feel the need to walk around armed with a shotgun, a rifle, and three large pistols on my person, I have every right to do so, with out any harassment from government agencies, or whiney, sheep minded statists.

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[ShotgunBlast]

Carrying to instigate and/or provoke is just stupid and immature. As Alex pointed out, we are adults and we should behave as such as far as firearms are concerned.

That said, I believe that if I want to walk around armed with a shotgun, a rifle, and three large pistols on my person, I have every right to do so, with out any harassment from government agencies, or whiney, sheep minded statists.

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Fixed that for you. I cringe when anyone says the word "need" when pertaining to firearms. "Why do you need an AR? Why do you need this? Why do you need that?" While your need for something may be valid, saying it is a need also opens you up to justifying your need to others. In my opinion when it comes to firearms, it's either covered under my natural right as an autonomous person, or I want it.

[SHMIV]

Well, Shotgun, point taken under advisement, and will be considered over the next couple of drive shifts. (Which, by the way, tend to average between 9 and 10 hours a shift, so don't take that lightly, lol)

As a United States citizen, however, I don't believe that I am under any obligation to justify too much of anything. Well, at least, I shouldn't be, anyway.

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[tommy610]

If it's legal, then the cops should leave him alone.

[thekinetic]

It depends on your reasons. If it's to make a statement, it's too far because you're asking for trouble. However if you think carrying a bigger gun makes you safer then by all means do it.

However if you're complying with the law then I ain't saying nothing nor should I.

[DiscipleofJMB]

It depends on your reasons. If it's to make a statement, it's too far because you're asking for trouble. However if you think carrying a bigger gun makes you safer then by all means do it.

However if you're complying with the law then I ain't saying nothing nor should I.

If I heard on the news that a truck full of cartel gangsters was rolling around my neighborhood, I'd bring a rifle... lol.



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[MarcSpaz]

I live in Woodbridge. There have been 5 crimes committed in the last 3 days involving criminals using guns. Everything from the CVS getting robbed at 9:30 AM to a drive-by near Potomac Mills at 8:00 PM.

Honestly, at this rate, I'm starting to think a helmet, armored LBE, M4 and six 30 round mags filled with XM855 is starting to look pretty appealing for a trip to the market, pharmacy or mall.

WTF is going on in Hoodbridge this week?

[SHMIV]

The actual Boy Scouts (and I refer to my Daddy's Boy Scouts; not what passes for scouting, now) had some good guidelines, one of which was "Be Prepared". While on may not foresee an immediate need for a rifle while grocery shopping, that does not mean that the need for it won't arise. If you feel so compelled to be prepared for such a thing, go for it, I say.

As far as carrying to make a statement goes, that is not my primary purpose. However, if I am already going to carry, I may as well present a positive image of gun owners. Doing so makes a statement; just not an agressive one.

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