Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I'm considering purchasing a hiking/bear defense firearm. Generally revolvers in 44Mag are the go to, although other options can work too. Problem is that I want to keep weight to as little as possible, so only revolvers like the 329pd are even in the running (or a G29). However, I haven't shot one and they aren't a common rental gun (if you know of a rental, please let me know).

If anyone has something similar and wouldn't mind meeting up with me for a test drive I'd appreciate it. Of course I'd cover the ammo (have 44Mag for larger guns), etc. Thanks for looking.

gunderwood wrote:Generally revolvers in 44Mag are the go to, although other options can work too. Problem is that I want to keep weight to as little as possible, so only revolvers like the 329pd are even in the running (or a G29).

One thing to watch on the 44M, when you are looking at energy, its most often quoted from a 7-8 barrel. The 4" barrel will be about 33% less velocity, and about 50% of the energy.

Most normal 44 mag offerings are in the 40-50 oz range, and in my experience are above what most recreational shooters consider acceptable recoil. The 25 oz gun is going to be fairly stout in recoil.

My vote would be for the G20/29 platform. You'll have 90% of the energy of the 44mag, in a slimmer profile, and 3x the ammo (G20).

If anyone has something similar and wouldn't mind meeting up with me for a test drive I'd appreciate it. Of course I'd cover the ammo (have 44Mag for larger guns), etc. Thanks for looking.

Big bore & big energy handguns are a very different animal from the 9mm/40 S&W guns. If you've never shot them before I would strongly encourage a test-drive before you do. Figure out what your recoil tolerance is before you are $1000 down the road.

I have both a 20 and 29 I could let ya test drive if you want to. I've also got a Super redhawk in 454. Not quite the same as a 329, but I' bet the recoil impulse, is fairly similar. 454 is about +80% on energy, but is on a 50% heavier frame than the 25 oz one you are considering.

If you don't care about breaking your wrists, I can bring along a .460, or a 500S&W if you want to go HIGH energy.

jdonovan wrote:One thing to watch on the 44M, when you are looking at energy, its most often quoted from a 7-8 barrel. The 4" barrel will be about 33% less velocity, and about 50% of the energy.

Good points to consider, but I already have. The premier dangerous game hunting/defense ammo manufacturer for 44Mag/45-70 is Garrett Cartridge out of Texas. They've been doing this for decades; their ammo has been proven extremely effective on every dangerous game around (including African's big 6); they're used by many government grizzly response teams; etc. They also publish real data for 4" revolvers.

I shoot their 45-70 in my Marlin. Excellent stuff.

jdonovan wrote:Most normal 44 mag offerings are in the 40-50 oz range, and in my experience are above what most recreational shooters consider acceptable recoil. The 25 oz gun is going to be fairly stout in recoil.

I already have a 44Mag, but as you note it's much heavier. A loaded 329PD weights about the same as a loaded G29; 6 rounds vs. 10 though.

jdonovan wrote:My vote would be for the G20/29 platform. You'll have 90% of the energy of the 44mag, in a slimmer profile, and 3x the ammo (G20).

For East Coast black bears either will work fine with the right ammo. I own and have taken bear defensive handguns out for a hike. The need here is to go super light weight to support longer/faster hikes (figure weeks vice days).

For bear defense it's not really about energy though, although that is one metric. A defensive bear shot is different than a hunting shot; besides a bear that isn't trying to eat me is a bear I'm leaving alone. A charging bear is not your typical shot. With the proper rifle/shotgun you have options as they have enough penetration to break the shoulder/hip bones. Even massively powerful animals such as the grizzle need bones, can't chase you otherwise. However, with a reasonable handgun you will actually carry when hiking, you're limited to a head shot/CNS shot. You need to bust the skull or spine on a large, charging bear. For these woods defensive bullets, sectional density is far more important as penetration is critically important. By that measure even the mighty 500SW is only CPX3 when loaded to the max with a ~500gr bullet. Obviously a well placed bullet during a hunt is different than a defensive shot.

The 10mm is a low CPX2 category cartridge while the .44Mag is a high CPX2 any maybe a CPX3 (when either is loaded with the proper wide flat nose hard cast bullets). My requirement was to keep things as light as possible. The revolver has the slight cartridge advantage and contact shots (remember bear defensive shooting), while the G29 has the capacity and speed advantage. Both are high on my list, but I've shot a lot of Glocks, no lightweight 44mags.

I might have to take you up on the G29 though.

for the 3oz delta I'd cary the 20 vs 29 and take the option for the +5 rounds. If you want to go light you can chose not to fully load the mag.

doubletap has some nice 230 hardcast, non-expanding WFN loads that are running 1100 FPS. Not quite the 300gr you'll get in the 44, but the SD is similar. Have'em on the shelf if you want a few to try in the 29.

Sounds like you REALLY want the light 44, and have sold yourself on it, but just want to try before you buy.

jdonovan wrote:for the 3oz delta I'd cary the 20 vs 29 and take the option for the +5 rounds. If you want to go light you can chose not to fully load the mag.

Not discussed yet, but in many states concealment is required, not an option like VA. I typically prefer the larger Glocks, but they are much harder to put in a small pouch on your pack. Not that a 329PD is any different than a 20.

jdonovan wrote:doubletap has some nice 230 hardcast, non-expanding WFN loads that are running 1100 FPS. Not quite the 300gr you'll get in the 44, but the SD is similar. Have'em on the shelf if you want a few to try in the 29.

DT and Underwood Ammo both do. I haven't chrono'd that specific load myself, but DT in general grossly over states their velocity (from what I've seen). The DT bullet design looks good (not a truncated cone like many so called WFN), Underwood doesn't have any pics of the bullet design. Either should be more than enough for the East Coast. Do you shoot that out of the factory Glock barrel? With the gas check and HC is should be fine, but I've come across some people complaining of accuracy and keyholing.

jdonovan wrote:Sounds like you REALLY want the light 44, and have sold yourself on it, but just want to try before you buy.

I really do prefer Glocks. The interest in the 44Mag is twofold. First, brown bears out west are a lot BIGGER! While we're on the East Coast, if I'm going to buy a specialized "hiking gun," might as well work well anywhere I hike. People have killed brown bears with 10mm though. Second, the quality and effectiveness of Garrett Cartridges is well known to me. Randy has spent a lot of time optimizing and testing various meplates, alloys, etc. to make the most of the only two cartridges he loads (strictly speaking he's sold off the company to Ashley Emerson). I know that ammo will work, whereas DT/Underwood in 10mm should work but don't have the deep track record. If they did or Garrett Cartridges made a 10mm load, I wouldn't even be considering the revolver because I shoot so much better with Glocks.

I do want to take you up on the G20/29 offer, but June is shot for me. I'll PM you.