Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Something you don't hear about often, if ever.
A cop telling someone to load their gun.

Load your pistol, please thread on the Ohioans for Concealed Carry Forum

Note: A person with an Ohio Concealed Handgun License is required to inform any and all LEOs of the fact that they are in possession of a handgun any time they are approached for law enforcement business. Actually, that is true for all non-LEO legally carrying concealed carriers in Ohio.

Wow! Can that guy move to my neck of the woods and take over the Fairfax County Police?

I see people all the time without a chambered round.....just plain silly.

ProShooter wrote:I see people all the time without a chambered round.....just plain silly.

And as a person who has been carrying as many years as you have it may seem silly. For people new to carrying (such as myself) it may not seem silly as they ease themselves into what it's like to carry. At least it's better than nothing. If you've been carrying for 20 years and don't have a round in the chamber, well, that may be silly. To each their own.

I don't understand that guy with the magazine in the glove box though.

Another OBTW:

By current Ohio law, if there were rounds in that magazine then, by law, his pistol was considered loaded even though the magazine was in the glove box and not in the pistol.

What an awesome LEO. I have had LEO's notice my handgun on my hip, look at me then look at my kids and just smile.

I have also had some just note I had it, look at me then continue what they are doing.

Theses were LEO's in Fairfax county. I like the ones that smile.

I've had New Kent deputies stare me down from the cruiser pretty hard, an officer walking through a Richmond Lowes raised an eyebrow at me, and an off duty officer in Williamsburg commend me. A yankee cop on vacation got real nervous when her kid started asking me questions. Other than that, as far as LEO is concerned, no reaction, at all.

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SHMIV wrote:I've had New Kent deputies stare me down from the cruiser pretty hard, an officer walking through a Richmond Lowes raised an eyebrow at me, and an off duty officer in Williamsburg commend me. A yankee cop on vacation got real nervous when her kid started asking me questions. Other than that, as far as LEO is concerned, no reaction, at all.

While doing what? The post was about the need to keep concealed handguns loaded. All of this interaction implies that they observed you doing something, possibly OCing?

Here's an interesting survey by law enforcement officers and their opinions on gun control ...
http://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legislatio ... -thoughts/

Sorry J1mmy. I was responding to what TM had said. I haven't figured out the quote function on my not-so-smart phone (and probably won't bother to, as I often have to be quick in my responses, if I want to hit "submit" while I still have signal). I suppose I should have clarified.

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j1mmyd wrote:

SHMIV wrote:I've had New Kent deputies stare me down from the cruiser pretty hard, an officer walking through a Richmond Lowes raised an eyebrow at me, and an off duty officer in Williamsburg commend me. A yankee cop on vacation got real nervous when her kid started asking me questions. Other than that, as far as LEO is concerned, no reaction, at all.

While doing what? The post was about the need to keep concealed handguns loaded. All of this interaction implies that they observed you doing something, possibly OCing?

J1mmyd, sorry I was talking about OC and CC both. I OC and CC, but because I don't have a CC holster in particular (just a blackhawk holster) and womens clothing tends to be tighter people can see I am carrying even when cc'ing. I have to still learn how to cc it properly with bigger shirts or just get a cc holster that goes iwb instead. =)

ShotgunBlast wrote:

ProShooter wrote:I see people all the time without a chambered round.....just plain silly.

And as a person who has been carrying as many years as you have it may seem silly. For people new to carrying (such as myself) it may not seem silly as they ease themselves into what it's like to carry. At least it's better than nothing. If you've been carrying for 20 years and don't have a round in the chamber, well, that may be silly. To each their own.

I don't understand that guy with the magazine in the glove box though.

Folks will argue that Israeli carry is a valid carrying condition. For some reason, I thought Army MPs carried that way.

Seems to me that like so many other things, to some extent it all depends.

For a pistol carried in a vehicle's center console, for instance, I see little disadvantage in needing to rack one into the chamber, because you already have to open the console to retrieve the gun - especially if the gun might slide around in the console and orient sideways with the muzzle toward the driver or passenger SWMBO sometimes worries (unnecessarily) that could happen with the weapons I keep in my console. Also, if it is a Glock or other of what I think of as "no-safety" weapons, an empty chamber might reduce the chances of an accidental discharge. Like I've said before; Glocks scare me. But it seems to me that something like my beloved 1911s that have a robust and proven safety arrangement should be carried cocked and locked if at all.

Not that this will work for everyone, but my M&P9 has no safety, so I drill drawing and simultaneously racking the slide. My Shield has a safety, so I carry it with one in the chamber and drill accordingly.

TacticalMom wrote:

j1mmyd wrote:

SHMIV wrote:I've had New Kent deputies stare me down from the cruiser pretty hard, an officer walking through a Richmond Lowes raised an eyebrow at me, and an off duty officer in Williamsburg commend me. A yankee cop on vacation got real nervous when her kid started asking me questions. Other than that, as far as LEO is concerned, no reaction, at all.

While doing what? The post was about the need to keep concealed handguns loaded. All of this interaction implies that they observed you doing something, possibly OCing?

J1mmyd, sorry I was talking about OC and CC both. I OC and CC, but because I don't have a CC holster in particular (just a blackhawk holster) and womens clothing tends to be tighter people can see I am carrying even when cc'ing. I have to still learn how to cc it properly with bigger shirts or just get a cc holster that goes iwb instead. =)

Well, now don't I feel silly... I should have seen that you were a lady, in which case I can imagine CC being observed more often that one might like. For one thing, by God's design, men just look at women more than we look at other men. And if its any consolation, we men that develop bellies have the same problem concealing, but hopefully not with men noticing us more.

dorminWS wrote:Seems to me that like so many other things, to some extent it all depends.

It does depend, but I keep it simple. If it has a holster, regardless if it's on my person or on a bag or in a container, etc. I carry it chambered. If for some reason I can't use a holster, it's merely loaded. e.g. loose in a glove box. If the holster can't properly retain the firearm such that I have to worry about it, I don't use/buy it.

dorminWS wrote:Also, if it is a Glock or other of what I think of as "no-safety" weapons, an empty chamber might reduce the chances of an accidental discharge. Like I've said before; Glocks scare me. But it seems to me that something like my beloved 1911s that have a robust and proven safety arrangement should be carried cocked and locked if at all.

I treat them all like no-safety firearms. There simply isn't anything I should be doing with a firearm upon which the safety will make one bit of difference. Firearms like the 1911 merely have extended pre-firing sequences. I use the holster to carry the firearm and protect the trigger guard. Otherwise, safe gun handling practices and your brain/trigger finger are the only real safeties in the world.

FYI, JMB thought the grip safety was a stupid idea and he only did it because the military required it. The thumb safety takes next to nothing to disengage. I've personally have had it disengage while carrying a cocked a "locked" 1911. Sometimes it can be the holster other times an ambi-safety has a distinct downside. I wouldn't trust any firearm, even a 1911, to be chambered and carried loose in a container or pack.

@dorminWS

I would actually consider the 1911 to be one of the worst to possibly carry chambered without a holster in a container. Consider the following.

1. The thumb safety takes very little effort to disengage. Take a unloaded 1911, toss it in a container with some clothes or any other items you like. Shake it around and then check the thumb safeties position. Sometimes it will be on, other times off. This will occur even with many holsters as they don't have a hard positive mechanism which won't allow the safety to be disengaged or the firearm to be holstered while it's disengaged. Ambis are the worst about this as one side is always exposed.

From this I conclude that the thumb safety, while it has it's purposes, preventing a chambered 1911 from firing while carried loose in a container and without a holster isn't one of them. It might do that, but it can't be relied on to guarantee the firearm won't go bang.

2. The trigger is typically much lighter than other SD handguns. Generally, that's not a bad thing. However, I think it's easy to assume that a ~3.5lbs 1911 trigger is much easier to have something accidentally trigger than the heavier options; no matter how heavy the trigger though, it's still possible.

3. The grip safety doesn't do much IMHO because the loose firearm does not move in isolation. I can give you a long winded explanation, but basically the grip safety can easily be engaged anytime the 1911's motion inside the container is stopped by the rear/back-strap. However, the same force that caused the 1911 to begin moving also caused the other objects in the container to move in the same direction. Thus, any object that was at the muzzle end of the 1911 must now be stopped by the 1911 which may just have had it's grip safety disengaged by the object that stopped/decelerated the 1911. If it hits with more than the triggers speced force, the gun goes bang.

Realistically thats how all loose guns could go bang without a holster.

@gunderwood:

I think you misinterpreted what I said.

I said that I see little or no disadvantage in having an empty chamber if a gun is carried in a console or compartment, and that includes a 1911. I did not advocate keeping a 1911 (or any other pistol) cocked and locked inside a compartment. Have not, do not, would not.
In fact I do keep pistols in a vehicle console, and I keep them loaded but with an empty chamber - for all the reasons you mentioned plus all the reasons I mentioned.

When I talked about Glocks and 1911s, I was talking about carrying rather than hauling them around in a vehicle compartment. As a matter of personal choice, I just don't carry loaded Glocks - even on the range. I'm not comfortable doing it.

I don't open carry. I seldom carry concealed. Any pistol I do carry must have what I consider to be a robust and positive safety arrangement. My comment was that WHEN carried, a 1911 should be cocked and locked on the theory that there is no more sense in carrying a pistol that is not ready to fire than there is in carrying one that may discharge accidentally.

I don't think we really disagree here on anything except that I'm afraid of Glocks and you aren't.

@dormin/gunderwood - I'm finding this particularly interesting. Wrt to 1911 nd glocks, how does the difference between being striker fired change the dynamics? I appreciate the extra "safety" afforded by the 1911, role of a good holster, and fingers off the handgun unless you're going to use it. Honestly, I'm not necessarily convinced there is a big practical difference between comdition 1 vs 3 carry, rather it is more important to consistently train with one of those conditions.

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after going thru all the hassle of carrying a firearm, don't understand why folks do this without a round in the chamber. if and when you need it you might not have time to spare to rack a round, or you might not have both hands free and available to do so.

that said, a co-worker said their uncle recently shot himself in the ankle with major damage from either drawing or holstering, so i guess if one is not comfortable or capable, maybe an empty chamber isn't a bad idea.