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Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 09:37:05
by Taggure
With all the news surrounding the Universal Background Checks (UBC) I wanted to conduct an unofficial poll here of VGOF members as to whether or not we as a group support the UBC. I have the poll open for 30 days in order to get as many members to vote as possible. Please be honest and I look forward to the discussions.
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 10:38:02
by VBshooter
NO!! Private is just that Private,,, What Big Brother don't know is none of his damn business.
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 10:58:10
by FiremanBob
Is this a trick question?
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 11:12:12
by MarcSpaz
I'm fine with criminal background checks at the state and/or federal level on new sales to prevent violent criminals from acquiring weapons. My problem is, that's not the agenda.
If it was just about safety, then we wouldn't need the make, model and serial number of the weapon you are buying or record retention of 20 years. They would just get the basics, call VASP and say "does this person qualify for a purchase?", and done. Instead, by collecting all the info they do, there is already a weapon registry. Just because the database is spread through the stores instead of being centralized, it still exist via a loop-hole of who holds the papers.
Think about it, a weapon is logged by the manufacturer as to what store the weapon was shipped to. The store logs who they sold to. The government is just trying to close the loop on a full de facto registry.
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 11:24:11
by ShotgunBlast
Just remember folks: we may see 100% votes not supporting a UBC in this poll, but that'll just be part of the 9% of the total population that doesn't support them.
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 11:45:23
by OakRidgeStars
Keep the camel's nose out of the tent. We have more than enough regulation and oversight. Besides, we all know how F'ed up every single thing that the Feds touch.
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 12:41:04
by jdonovan
Taggure wrote:With all the news surrounding the Universal Background Checks (UBC) I wanted to conduct an unofficial poll here of VGOF members as to whether or not we as a group support the UBC. I have the poll open for 30 days in order to get as many members to vote as possible. Please be honest and I look forward to the discussions.
Lets start with enforcement of the EXISTING laws regarding mental health, straw purchases etc.. when the state/fed gets to 80% prosecution rate there, then we can open the discussion on new laws.
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 13:06:09
by Taggure
Interesting so far.
Actualy it was j1mmyd post that prompted this poll because I thought he had a good question with a not so easy answer
@ FiremanBob
Is this a trick question?
Nope not at all it is just a very simple question with a not so simple answer.
I agree with jdonovan statement
Lets start with enforcement of the EXISTING laws regarding mental health, straw purchases etc.. when the state/fed gets to 80% prosecution rate there, then we can open the discussion on new laws.
My problem to this question is that UBC will do nothing to maintain the safety of the public; A Bad Guy is a Bad Guy and does not care about laws.
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 13:10:43
by allingeneral
Senator Mike Lee (R/UT) wrote:
A law requiring background checks for all gun sales seems more politically palatable than traditional gun control. After all, it doesn't take away anyone's guns or restrict the sale or possession of firearms. It doesn't directly violate the Second Amendment at all.
What's wrong with a universal background check?
In a word: everything.
There is no reason to believe a government $17 trillion in debt has the competence to cast a net of paperwork that will catch every single gun sale in a country of 300 million people and 300 million firearms. And even that ignores the fact - always inconvenient when designing gun laws - that armed criminals don't obey laws in the first place.
The only way to make a universal background-check system come close to working is to create a national database capturing ownership information of every single gun in the country.
To track all the gun sales, you first have to track all the guns. Otherwise it won't work.
And this is the crux of the problem.
The federal government has no right to surveil innocent citizens exercising their constitutional rights.
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 13:14:05
by Taggure
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 14:48:17
by thekinetic
No, and I also would like to vote that the one person that voted yes be banned permanently from this forum.
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 15:00:26
by DryBones
thekinetic wrote:No, and I also would like to vote that the one person that voted yes be banned permanently from this forum.
not much use for a forum if we all agree on everything. I prefer to keep an open mind and continue with a civil debate allowing other their freedom of speech and thoughts. I don't have to agree with them, but I won't try to silence them because we disagree. What do you think I am...a Democrat?
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 15:54:10
by Taggure
thekinetic wrote:No, and I also would like to vote that the one person that voted yes be banned permanently from this forum.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and points of view and exercising thier 1st Ammendment right is no grounds to Ban anyone. If that were the case Myself and several others around here would have been banned a long time ago.
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 16:03:42
by Glockem
I am really struggling with this question. I believe that I support this action of UBC knowing full well that it won't stop an "undocumented Crazy" from walking into a theatre or school and killing innocent US Citizens or US Students. I don't understand our VGOF angst against BC when the Commenwealth requires BC on all new firearms either in stores or at gun shows, so all VA would changing is capturing the private sales. There appears to be something wrong with our BC in VA if "Undocumented Crazies" or Felons can jump onto Vaguntrader.com and buy whatever they want just by showing a private seller his/her license or other ID. On the face of this concept though, if upgrading our VA BC to include all gun sales and we are able to prevent illegal purchases by felons or crazies and that action also prevented a potential future murder or mass murder, then this is a no brainer that I would support. This thought process would also support a National US UBC for the same reasoning.
However if they are laying the groundwork for creating a UBC requirement which leads to a secret database that provides the Govt. the capability to search and seize all US firearms by say 2050 then I don't support establishing that framework.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ] 
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 16:09:17
by Glockem
Quote "No, and I also would like to vote that the one person that voted yes be banned permanently from this forum". TheKinetic
Then by your logic, all racist biggots like yourself should be removed from this forum also, as we have all seen some of your recent and highly undesirable posts.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 16:09:53
by DryBones
it wont be 2050, once registered...the next time a crazy goes off in a school or movie theatre there will be an uproar to seize all guns. don't believe this isn't what they are gearing up for. There is a plan, I just don't have a copy of it!
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 16:13:00
by ShotgunBlast
allingeneral wrote:Senator Mike Lee (R/UT) wrote:
A law requiring background checks for all gun sales seems more politically palatable than traditional gun control. After all, it doesn't take away anyone's guns or restrict the sale or possession of firearms. It doesn't directly violate the Second Amendment at all.
What's wrong with a universal background check?
In a word: everything.
There is no reason to believe a government $17 trillion in debt has the competence to cast a net of paperwork that will catch every single gun sale in a country of 300 million people and 300 million firearms. And even that ignores the fact - always inconvenient when designing gun laws - that armed criminals don't obey laws in the first place.
The only way to make a universal background-check system come close to working is to create a national database capturing ownership information of every single gun in the country.
To track all the gun sales, you first have to track all the guns. Otherwise it won't work.
And this is the crux of the problem.
The federal government has no right to surveil innocent citizens exercising their constitutional rights.
"OK, it's not perfect, but it's a start. Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good." I'm tired of hearing that reply.
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 16:48:53
by GeneFrenkle
No "universal background checks".
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 17:04:07
by Snakester
I am going to have to vote NO. UBC will only create more paperwork and waste time for the Private Citizen. It will not stop the Crazies from going on Shooting Spree's. It will not stop the Criminals from getting any gun anytime they want.
Re: Poll: Do you Support Universal Background Checks
Posted: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 18:47:44
by moss20
H_LL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
