Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I read the thread on here about using steel-cased ammo in ARs, and the linked test. I buy the steel Wolf and Tula rounds because I know that the AK can use them without ill effects. But I passed on some really cheap Tula 9mm last week because I read that it would screw up innards of my pistols.

Does anyone have an informed opinion on using steel-cased ammo in a 9mm handgun? I'm down to only a couple boxes of brass-cased rounds, and not shooting more than once every few weeks because of it. I've heard so many horror stories about using steel, but unlike that test with the ARs, it's all anecdote. Any reason to think that results would be different in a pistol vs. the rifles (other than problems with the gas systems and bolt fouling, ofc.)

Thanks.

I don't think anyone is a big fan of steel cased ammo in handguns, but I'll still pick it up when I see it (especially in these times) and I'll stick it in the bottom of my pile for ammo to shoot and hope I never get to the bottom. I figure in a SHTF scenario I'd rather shoot steel cased ammo than resort to throwing my gun at someone. It also becomes an inexpensive barter item too. Or if you want to sprinkle some in with your brass stash I don't think that'll hurt your gun.

IIRC, that AR test showed excessive wear in the throat/rifling due to copper washed/mild steel jacked bullets found in the cheap Russian ammo. The steel case had nothing to do with that since the case only enters the chamber. Also, the quality and type of powder affects barrel life.

In general, steel is harder on various firearm internals. Limited quantities of it aren't a problem. It's only when you start shooting a lot of it that you see the excessive wear in that AR test (e.g. extractor wear). I reload, so I want brass cased ammo since I don't accept the increased risk of reloading steel. If you lack ammo though and given the shortage, shooting a bit of steel cased isn't the end of the world.

That being said, there is nothing special about an AK that would cause it to not exhibit the same excessive wear as the AR test. However, just like the ARs, most shooters don't shoot that much so they won't notice the additional wear. Additionally, the AR is a much more precisely made weapon than the average AK, thus the AK parts are sloppy from the get go so excessive wear is less likely to be noticed.

gunderwood wrote:IIRC, that AR test showed excessive wear in the throat/rifling due to copper washed/mild steel jacked bullets found in the cheap Russian ammo. The steel case had nothing to do with that since the case only enters the chamber. Also, the quality and type of powder affects barrel life.

In general, steel is harder on various firearm internals. Limited quantities of it aren't a problem. It's only when you start shooting a lot of it that you see the excessive wear in that AR test (e.g. extractor wear). I reload, so I want brass cased ammo since I don't accept the increased risk of reloading steel. If you lack ammo though and given the shortage, shooting a bit of steel cased isn't the end of the world.

That being said, there is nothing special about an AK that would cause it to not exhibit the same excessive wear as the AR test. However, just like the ARs, most shooters don't shoot that much so they won't notice the additional wear. Additionally, the AR is a much more precisely made weapon than the average AK, thus the AK parts are sloppy from the get go so excessive wear is less likely to be noticed.

Gunderwood, would love to know the source info. Not calling you out; just curious. Your reasoning appears sound; I just seems like there's a lot of info out on the interwebz on this topic, most of it second and third hand heresay.

Maybe something for Lucky Gunner Labs to take up?

The test the OP and I were referencing was done by LGL: http://vagunforum.net/ammunition/brass- ... st#p145642

As indicated by accuracy testing, the steel cased/bimetal jacketed ammunition caused accelerated wear to the inside of their respective bores. While the barrel of the Federal carbine had plenty of life left, even after 10,000 rounds at extremely high rates of fire, the Wolf and Brown Bear barrels were subjected to the same rates of fire and were completely “shot out” by 6,000 rounds.

At the end of the test, the chrome lining of the Wolf and Brown Bear barrels was almost gone from the throat forward, and the barrels had effectively become smoothbores, with the rifling near the muzzles acting only as a mild suggestion on the projectiles. A throat erosion gauge could be dropped into the bore from the muzzle end with absolutely no resistance.

AK barrels are no different.

I'm going to try some of this stuff when I can get my hands on some. Too little research that I can find yet to sway me one way or the other. Hornady obviously thinks steel cases are not a problem.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2011/10/25/r ... eel-match/

For us action pistol shooters, it is especially appealing as most of the matches are "lost brass" events.

Chasbo00 wrote:I'm going to try some of this stuff when I can get my hands on some. Too little research that I can find yet to sway me one way or the other. Hornady obviously thinks steel cases are not a problem.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2011/10/25/r ... eel-match/

For us action pistol shooters, it is especially appealing as most of the matches are "lost brass" events.

I've been contemplating doing that for this year for IDPA matches, but then the shortage hit. So I'm stuck with my reloads.

Maybe I'll give it a try the next time I see some in. My new LC9 is proving tough to get used to, and not being able to shoot often enough is not helping the situation.

Thanks for all the info.

The worst thing about cheap russian ammo is the dirty slow burning powder that blows all thru the action. That is more of a concern than steel cases.

I have a SIG 556R I've only shot Wolf and Tula ammo through. I have AR15's that haven't had any steel case ammo through them.

When I shoot them, side by side at the range, the same number of rounds, the A15's are dirtier than the SIG. That gas piston action keeps the crud up front while the AR blows it right back into the bolt/receiver.

I haven't hot any factory steel cased ammo through my handguns but I reload the empty steel cases and run them through my handguns (1911's) side by side with the brass cases. I guess I'm going to have to buy a box or two of steel cases pistol ammo just to shoot up to see if its dirtier than the rifle ammo.

I have used a good amount of it and only had problems in a little 380 i had. wouldnt feed properly. other than that specific gun i would recommend every time.

I have shot a good bit of it and will shoot more. It was about half the price of brass.

Yes, it is dirty.
Yes, it is loaded to slightly less velocity.

M1A4ME wrote:I have a SIG 556R I've only shot Wolf and Tula ammo through. I have AR15's that haven't had any steel case ammo through them.

When I shoot them, side by side at the range, the same number of rounds, the A15's are dirtier than the SIG. That gas piston action keeps the crud up front while the AR blows it right back into the bolt/receiver.

I haven't hot any factory steel cased ammo through my handguns but I reload the empty steel cases and run them through my handguns (1911's) side by side with the brass cases. I guess I'm going to have to buy a box or two of steel cases pistol ammo just to shoot up to see if its dirtier than the rifle ammo.

Be careful reloading those steel cases. Steel isn't as malleable as brass and thus experiences more plastic deformation, which will eventually and possibly without warning give way to catastrophic results.