Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I try to be open minded, I am a pastry chef at a local place, and I teach Baking and Pastry at my local school district. But last night I overheard a conversation between a employee and a customer at my local Pastry Chef gig.

I am paraphrasing, but suffice to say this is what was said.

Customer: I would like some chicken and turkey cut please.

Employee: No problem, just so you know we are closed at 10pm in the future. (note: it was 10:15 at this point)

Customer: Oh you need to clean the machine of any pork, I cannot eat any pork. Also the turkey and the chicken were not touching any pork products in the case were they?

Employee: uh ok. (note: at this point cause it is closing time they sanitize the slicers and are breaking everything down.)

This customer could not eat pork because of his religion and I respect that ( respect that a person has their own religion and lives by it), however, it is a little ridiculous to expect a place that serves Pork products to completely clean something for you, unless advertised that we will have a pork free slicer, we cannot guarantee that you will not get pork product in your food. Like those moms and dads that come in saying my kids is allergic nuts/eggs/flour/ etc. I tell them this is not the bakery for you then. We work with these products and while we clean a lot, we cannot guarantee that your items will not come into contact with nut dust in the air or what not.

Besides the fact that he came after closing time for that particular area, and I won't get into that. I just had to vent, because it was annoying and a total example of just how entitled a lot of people feel.

I talked to husband about this, and asked him what he felt. He thought it was ridiculous as well. I said if I felt that strongly about eating the product I would make sure I went to a place that did not sell any of the product I was worried about, either for allergens or for my personal damnation.

Sorry just venting cause it really irritated me. Customer did not ask if we could do it, just demanded that we do it. (customer is always right. right?) Maybe I am completely off base, but customers around here can get under your skin, especially if you are in a service industry.

Maybe I am a bad person for being annoyed.

Hmmm... I can *read* this one two ways. As you were there, I trust you that the guy was being an ass. That being said, If they guy came in right at closing time, knew it was closing time and plead his case this way:

"I know you're closing, and you've started cleaning, but my religions says that I should''t eat any pork, or foods that touch pork. Since you're cleaning up anyway, is there any way you could cut some chicken and turkey for me on a machine that's been cleaned of pork? I'd really appreciate it" or something like that.

Something like that would have let the counter person know that they picked the time of the visit to minimize their impact on normal operations (unless they clean and sanitize throughout the day, never worked at a deli so I dunno...) really appreciated them going out of their way to accommodate the customer's request.

There are ways to get what you want and still have everyone feel good about it. It sounds like the customer in this case didn't realize that or worse, didn't care.

SpanishInquisition wrote:Hmmm... I can *read* this one two ways. As you were there, I trust you that the guy was being an ass. That being said, If they guy came in right at closing time, knew it was closing time and plead his case this way:

"I know you're closing, and you've started cleaning, but my religions says that I should''t eat any pork, or foods that touch pork. Since you're cleaning up anyway, is there any way you could cut some chicken and turkey for me on a machine that's been cleaned of pork?" or something like that.

Something like that would have let the counter person know that they picked the time of the visit to minimize their impact on normal operations (unless they clean and sanitize throughout the day, never worked at a deli so I dunno...) really appreciated them going out of their way to accommodate the customer's request.

There are ways to get what you want and still have everyone feel good about it. It sounds like the customer in this case didn't realize that or worse, didn't care.

I agree had he come in and stated hey I came in knowing that these were going to be cleaned. I would have had no problem with that. He was being an ass. Kept saying there are no pork products on that. When the other employee mentioned that they were closing, and everything was broken down, he shrugged and restated what he wanted. I stepped in telling the person it will be a few minutes due to the fact we just put sanitizer on the machines. I don't want that stuff on your meat.

He mentioned he was in a hurry, and we worked as fast as we could. Me being the pastry chef trying to help out and get it cleaned as quickly as possible so that the slicer was ready to use, and not full of chemicals.

When a customer asks for something to be guaranteed of no nuts, I tell them "nope cannot guarantee that at all. We make other products with nuts in it, and while we do not intentionally place nuts in your cake that does not have nuts in it, I cannot guarantee that they do not have traces of them in it. " Then they have to take it or leave it.

I once asked a customer if they were doing ok and if they needed help. This lady yelled at me saying. "If I want your help I will ask you for it." The customers in this area are some of the worst I have ever seen. They are all entitled to get what they want when they want, no matter what.

Ehh maybe I am just jaded.

Well, since he was being an ass... "Oh yes sir, this machine has just been sanitized!" as I seem to recall that the effects of a tad of sanitizer can be...well... let's just say EX Lax wouldn't be on his shopping list, m'kay?


...and it IS easy to get jaded in food service. Just remember that the walk in cooler is soundproof and you can yell to your hearts content in there and nobody will be the wiser... unless they open the door unexpectedly when you're "in therapy".

It's time to introduce a new "Halal-friendly" cleaning product to your place of business. This is sure to keep 'em coming back for more.

Tell 'im you spray everything down with hot bacongrease to keep stuff from rusting overnight...

No meat for you!


We're CLOSED!

(Billy Crystal - Princess Bride)

While we're on the subject of weird food reactions, where did this whole "nut allergy" thing come from? At what point did we start breeding children that can't even look at a picture of peanut without inciting a near-hysterical response from every parent and first responder in town?

Is this the future of our offspring? Sure we can handle wars, famine, pestilence and even nukes but someone accidently leaves some peanut oil residue around we're doomed.

Maybe the ChiComs and Iranians should start dropping dirty nut bombs on school playgrounds around the country. We will all be doomed.

At least we will still have our pork sammiches. Now with nut-free barbecue sauce.

Not sure why we have do many nut allergies now. Prob has something to do with the multitude of toxins we are exposed to in everything from vaccinations, medications, to Doritos, to our chicken we buy.

At any rate in our house whee I mostly cook from scratch and where we selectively vaccinate (getting only the tried, true, and most needful), avoid antibiotics unless absolutely needed, and get hormone free grass fed milk, we have no allergies as of yet in our children.

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OakRidgeStars wrote:While we're on the subject of weird food reactions, where did this whole "nut allergy" thing come from? At what point did we start breeding children that can't even look at a picture of peanut without inciting a near-hysterical response from every parent and first responder in town?

Is this the future of our offspring? Sure we can handle wars, famine, pestilence and even nukes but someone accidently leaves some peanut oil residue around we're doomed.

Maybe the ChiComs and Iranians should start dropping dirty nut bombs on school playgrounds around the country. We will all be doomed.

At least we will still have our pork sammiches. Now with nut-free barbecue sauce.

Besides the Asian Curse (lactose intolerance, they can have some but not straight milk, the thought is that my ancestors from Japan did not have cows and milk so we did not develop the enzymes to process it properly), my children are thankfully allergy free.

I read up on this while they were babies young and I was at school. There are lots theories out there, part of my studies to get my degrees we had to research allergens as it influenced our product and what the customers were/would be looking for and how to clean/prep with and work with them.

Warning this gets long winded, so please skip if you don't care.

One of the theories is (and I think is probably one of the causes): We wait to long to give our children nuts, be cause everyone is afraid. Most parents wait till the age of 2 years to introduce peanuts, tree nuts, eggs, shell fish, etc etc. "Another hypothesis for the increase in peanut allergies (and other immune and auto-immune disorders) in recent decades is the hygiene hypothesis. Comparative studies have found that delaying introduction of peanut products significantly increases the risks of development of peanut allergies,[9][10] and the American Academy of Pediatrics, in response to ongoing studies that showed no reduction in risk of atopic disease, rescinded their recommendation to delay exposure to peanuts along with other foods."
People were told not to eat shellfish, nuts, while pregnant, breast feeding etc. Which is horse poop, unless you are allergic and can't have it. Eat it in my opinion.

Another theory is ( and I can see this as being true for some of the other people as well): People are getting so hysterical about peanuts and so scared about it that they are making their kids sick.
" However, there is an increasing body of medical opinion that, while there definitely are food sensitivities, the dramatic rise in frequency of nut allergies and more particularly the measures taken in response to the threat show elements of mass psychogenic illness, hysterical reactions grossly out of proportion to the level of danger:[15] "About 3.3 million Americans are allergic to nuts, and even more—6.9 million—are allergic to seafood. However, all told, serious allergic reactions to foods cause just 2000 hospitalisations a year (out of more than 30 million hospitalisations nationwide)."

I am not a medical doctor, but most of them now have said, be careful what you give them but let them try it.

They way we did it, (note with my background we eat a lot of Asian food, seafood, shellfish etc normally. No known allergies in my family) was after one year, and when they started solid foods, we would give them one thing new in their diet, and just watch them. If they did not react to it great, let them have that and their other food for three days, then try a new thing. Parents are so afraid to give their kids anything and listen to old 'don't give your kids anything" other than bananas and rice cereal that they are making their kids over sensitized when they actually get something finally.

Now that is not to say there is no allergies at all, and that it is all in their heads. Sure there are people that have those allergies. But we don't do our kids any service coddling and making their food bland and flavorless. My pediatrician knows I am a chef and I made all of there baby food. He told me go ahead and use spices, cinnamon, cardimon, cumin, cilantro, garlic, everything. It makes the food taste better. I have the theory, that babies want to eat flavorful food too. Who wants to eat pureed blanched chicken breast, without rosemerry, lemon, thyme, a little salt and pepper? Not I. My kiddos ate up the meals I made. They are and always have been willing to try anything at least once.

It is known as we get older our pallets get dulled, hence the "aquired tasted".

I guess it is all about being educated and informed, and not coddling them and making sure that they are allowed to be kids. When my first born was little I wanted to freak out when he touched the floor (husband broke me of that, he said "a little dirt never hurt anyone"), now I just let them do their thing, within reason, and hose them down later.

Wow that was a long winded response.

I know wiki is not the leading resource, but here is some more information, also where I got the quotes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_allergy

mamabearCali wrote:Not sure why we have do many nut allergies now. Prob has something to do with the multitude of toxins we are exposed to in everything from vaccinations, medications, to Doritos, to our chicken we buy.

At any rate in our house whee I mostly cook from scratch and where we selectively vaccinate (getting only the tried, true, and most needful), avoid antibiotics unless absolutely needed, and get hormone free grass fed milk, we have no allergies as of yet in our children.

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1+

I agree with this as well. The toxins in the environment.

I to cook from scratch at home, and we selectively vaccinate. I avoid medication like the plague. If we can survive without it we don't need it. Unless some one is in a life or death situation we do not take it. =)

My pediatrician knows how "crazy" I am.

OakRidgeStars wrote:While we're on the subject of weird food reactions, where did this whole "nut allergy" thing come from? At what point did we start breeding children that can't even look at a picture of peanut without inciting a near-hysterical response from every parent and first responder in town?

I was in a minority of one when I suggested to the preschool staff that maybe the one kid who was allergic to peanut-butter should not be allowed to attend, rather than prohibit the other 100 kids from bringing PB&J sandwiches. This was the same place that you had to label each food item in the bag with your child's name, because they refrigerated meat and dairy products so as not to 'spoil' by lunch time. Looking back, I can't believe how overboard that place was, and it was at our church. Then again, it was also in the Socialist Republic of Maryland. That was a long time ago. Our precious little snowflake is 16 now, looking at Taurus revolvers, dreaming of owning Jeep, and applying to VMI as soon as she is able.

How did I ever survive those hot squishy tuna fish sandwiches, with 100% real Hellman's mayonnaise?

On the topic of customers, TacMom, check out notalwaysright.com... you could submit that story to share with the rest of the world, lol.

On the topic of allergies and other awful dangers, I often wonder how the rest of the world thinks humans have survived for centuries, without vaccines, antibiotics, hand sanitizers, etc. Fear of germs will end the human race; we'll kill ourselves by killing our own immune systems.

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Oh hell. Im having flashbacks of the deli at food lion i worked at long ago! I woulda smiled n said no were closed! The customer is NOT always right!

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Cut the meat ,,Pork on it or not. Screw em. tell him to get the hell out. End of convo..

Honostly that man's being a grade A jackwagon because according to islamic law if you unknowingly ingest pork then you're not breaking any tenets.

Personally if it were me I would just refuse him service because for one it was after hours and two even upon request you don't need to clean a meat cutter just for one customer and three this is America and we eat pork and if that doesn't conform to their tenets then they can purchase meat at a halal shop!

It may not have been Islamic law. Kosher rules also forbid pork. Dunno if yhere is a "didn't know clause.

"Sorry, the deli is closed." probably would have been the best course course though.

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I eat lunch with a lunch with a Jew and a Muslim on a regular basis. They eat kosher and halal, but try to be reasonable about it. I am an omnivore.

If you have a sign up saying your place is kosher and/or halal, then great you keep things separate and serve the people who want that.

If NOT, you explain the normal way. If they are ok with that, great, if not....

There is one more option, you explain the normal way. If they are not happy with that, then you can offer them the product at a higher cost to do it a special way.

This is not religious discrimination. This is not a problem for them. As my friends have explained to me, if they were some place where they could only get pork to eat, then it would be ok to eat pork.

SHMIV wrote:On the topic of customers, TacMom, check out notalwaysright.com... you could submit that story to share with the rest of the world, lol.

On the topic of allergies and other awful dangers, I often wonder how the rest of the world thinks humans have survived for centuries, without vaccines, antibiotics, hand sanitizers, etc. Fear of germs will end the human race; we'll kill ourselves by killing our own immune systems.

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This could be it's own thread.

I would love to do a study of kids who had parents that sterilized everything vs the kids that played in the dirt. My guess is the kids who played in the dirt were healthier as adults.

SpanishInquisition wrote:It may not have been Islamic law. Kosher rules also forbid pork. Dunno if yhere is a "didn't know clause.

"Sorry, the deli is closed." probably would have been the best course course though.

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x2

If they want to ensure that their food is either kosher or halal they should go to a deli that specializes in that.

A lot of people do this quite often and ask if they can, in this case, get the meat cut first so you say yes and can't take it back and say the machines are down when they start adding on random restrictions. If they had said first, "Hi, my religion forbids me from eating pork, so I would like you to clean a machine and cut some meat for me." You could have gotten out of it by saying "Sorry, we're closed and the machines are down for the night."

Happened all the time when I worked an auto parts store, someone would either try to come in at 10:15 and ask for a battery test and then want it changed, or just buy one and then say, "Oh? I thought you installed them too."

SHMIV wrote:On the topic of customers, TacMom, check out notalwaysright.com... you could submit that story to share with the rest of the world, lol.

On the topic of allergies and other awful dangers, I often wonder how the rest of the world thinks humans have survived for centuries, without vaccines, antibiotics, hand sanitizers, etc. Fear of germs will end the human race; we'll kill ourselves by killing our own immune systems.

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I will look up that site. Thanks for the recommendation.

You all crack me up.