Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.

Although I’ve seen and read several online blurbs about this vehicle of late, I decided to dig slightly deeper and discover more about the vehicle itself.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/03 ... stockpile/

Time to look at .50 cals on the used market.

I'm sure someone will argue that they need those as well to replace aging police cruisers.

I would like to see some TV reporter from the WH beat have the stones to demand an answer from Zero about the intended use of these MRAPs. He can't say they're for training and practice, like the ammo. He can't say they are for illegal aliens or for fighting the Mexican drug cartels, or for finding small cells of Islamic terrorists. It would be fun to see him sweat and stumble out his BS answer on national TV so everyone can view it.

Any weaponry on those bad boys? Or is it just a troop carrier?

I'm thinking of a turtle on its back:

FiremanBob wrote:I would like to see some TV reporter from the WH beat have the stones to demand an answer from Zero about the intended use of these MRAPs. He can't say they're for training and practice, like the ammo. He can't say they are for illegal aliens or for fighting the Mexican drug cartels, or for finding small cells of Islamic terrorists. It would be fun to see him sweat and stumble out his BS answer on national TV so everyone can view it.

Video says they use them for high risk warrant service.
Can't say as I've seen a mine field in the US recently....

DaRoller wrote:

FiremanBob wrote:I would like to see some TV reporter from the WH beat have the stones to demand an answer from Zero about the intended use of these MRAPs. He can't say they're for training and practice, like the ammo. He can't say they are for illegal aliens or for fighting the Mexican drug cartels, or for finding small cells of Islamic terrorists. It would be fun to see him sweat and stumble out his BS answer on national TV so everyone can view it.

Video says they use them for high risk warrant service.
Can't say as I've seen a mine field in the US recently....

Or any insurgents planting IEDs...


Edit: Think about this... there are 2,700 and only 50 states... that's over 50 for each state! There are only ~3k counties and you know this likely only the first batch.

First off, the item pictured is not a tank it is an armored truck.

Lets explain a legitimate use of this truck.

1. If there is a bomb threat, get in close and look something over.
2. If there is a standoff with an active shooter, get in close to try to take them out.
3. If there is a sniper like the one in TX a few years back, get in close and get hurt people out of the way.


Heck, this isn't anything that I haven't seen in police departments in the past.


Now a TANK, that is a different story.

As far as spending money, I would think as we pull back from Afganaistan and Iraq and .... we would have many of these vehicles around to be used by the police.

RWBlue01 wrote:1. If there is a bomb threat, get in close and look something over.
2. If there is a standoff with an active shooter, get in close to try to take them out.
3. If there is a sniper like the one in TX a few years back, get in close and get hurt people out of the way.

1. That's what we have robots for. This thing is useless for regular bomb threats which occur inside/around facilities. If it's a road-side IED like Iraq (when was the last time we had one of those in the US?), I'm pretty sure driving up to it isn't a smart idea. Even in Iraq we secured the area and then robots/EOD in to dispose of it. We certainly didn't drive up to it just to check it out because even these armored personnel carries have their limits.

2. I take it you've never tried getting out of an armored vehicle before? The doors on these things are so heavy that they are powered and slow. There are no weapons (that I can see), perhaps port holes, but that goes both ways. If you get close enough to attempt taking him out, he might just hand you a hand grenade when you crack the seal. Yes, it's happened before with armored vehicles.

3. Maybe, but if it really is a sniper I wouldn't want to jump out of a fixed opening with a heavy slow door. Sounds a lot like shooting fish in a barrel if you ask me.

DaRoller wrote: Can't say as I've seen a mine field in the US recently....

quote="gunderwood"]

DaRoller wrote:

FiremanBob wrote:I would like to see some TV reporter from the WH beat have the stones to demand an answer from Zero about the intended use of these MRAPs. He can't say they're for training and practice, like the ammo. He can't say they are for illegal aliens or for fighting the Mexican drug cartels, or for finding small cells of Islamic terrorists. It would be fun to see him sweat and stumble out his BS answer on national TV so everyone can view it.

Video says they use them for high risk warrant service.
Can't say as I've seen a mine field in the US recently....

Or any insurgents planting IEDs...


Edit: Think about this... there are 2,700 and only 50 states... that's over 50 for each state! There are only ~3k counties and you know this likely only the first batch.[/quote]

I have said it for years....
If you want to take out the USA, I would only need 100 dedicated people.
100 snipers or 100 people planting IEDs, better yet both, but it could be done with 100 people.
I could hold the USA hostage.

It is hard to plant IEDs in the roads, but how many cars do you pass every day broken down or parked. Explosives can be as simple as diesel fuel and fertilizer. Anyone have a throw away phone or garage door opener for radio detonator?

How long did it take to catch the Northern Virginia sniper? BTW, He wasn't even a sniper. Multiple shots, multiple misses. Not even long range.
It took a long time to catch the crazy sniper in Ohio. He was just shooting at cars at a certain area. It wasn't that hard to catch him.

For those looking at the usage, this is just like any other tool or gun.
Yes, it could be used to put down a revolution.
Yes, it could be used to put down a race issue.
Yes, it could be used to put down a terrorist issue.
Yes, these could sit in the police parking lot and rust away. Only being used once a year for some good old boys to go hunting in them.


Moderators, if I am too specific, edit as needed. I don't want to give people ideas, but the ideas have been out there for a while.

It's the difference between peace officers and police officers...

According to army-technology.com there is no standard armament pack on the MRAP, but a variety of remote-controlled, turret-based automatic weapons can be installed. The article doesn't say what accessories these 2700 DHS MRAPs will have.

FiremanBob wrote:According to army-technology.com there is no standard armament pack on the MRAP, but a variety of remote-controlled, turret-based automatic weapons can be installed. The article doesn't say what accessories these 2700 DHS MRAPs will have.

Yes, they could install armaments on them. I suspect if they started showing these things with remote-controlled, full auto M2s on top that would raise too much interest. As configured for the video, it's basically a APC which has little to no value in the USA unless the DHS rumors are true. There simply isn't a need for DHS agents to be riding around on US highways in APCs like it's Baghdad or something.

gunderwood wrote:As configured for the video, it's basically a APC which has little to no value in the USA unless the DHS rumors are true. There simply isn't a need for DHS agents to be riding around on US highways in APCs like it's Baghdad or something.

Bingo!

"It's the difference between peace officers and police officers..."-Gunderwood

CORRECT! We have quite a few Police Officers, and LEO's, but VERY FEW PEACE Officers!

RWBlue01 wrote:For those looking at the usage, this is just like any other tool or gun.
Yes, it could be used to put down a revolution.
Yes, it could be used to put down a race issue.
Yes, it could be used to put down a terrorist issue.
Yes, these could sit in the police parking lot and rust away. Only being used once a year for some good old boys to go hunting in them.

They are just tools. However, the government is purchasing these tools on our dime, so they are accountable to us. Yes, police departments around the country have purchased all kinds of cool toys in the past, but just because they have done it before doesn't mean it's a valid expense today or even then. These are the same departments that can't take a couple % budget cut without laying off half the force...because they overspent buying toys.

RWBlue01 wrote:First off, the item pictured is not a tank it is an armored truck...Now a TANK, that is a different story.

Forgot to address this last time. Tanks would be just as big a waste of money, but would actually concern me less. Most of the country lives in urban areas where a tank is practically useless. It's considered a classic, tactical folly to drive tanks into urban areas, they're just too vulnerable. APCs on the other hand are designed for such urban combat. The key word here is combat. For real LEA use, they're expensive toys that aren't good for much of anything. However, as a tool to use military tactics against the people, they're ideal.

What I don't get is local, county and state police agencies all over the country have had armored SWAT vehicles that look and are equipped like this for decades. So why is it an issue for DHS? You guys are getting too paranoid.

A few examples


Passaic County S.W.A.T. team

http://media.northjersey.com/images/012 ... mobile.jpg

New Orleans Metro Police LAV-25 C2 Vehicle.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-67IhlZas03M/U ... 086cx3.jpg

Chicago Police MRAP

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N4W1v5CrAn0/U ... 279-vi.jpg

Doraville Police M-113A3

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KPEOp045Rs0/U ... lle_lg.jpg

MarcSpaz wrote:What I don't get is local, county and state police agencies all over the country have had armored SWAT vehicles that look and are equipped like this for decades. So way is it an issue for DHS? You guys are getting too paranoid.

SWAT equally has no use for riding around in an APC. Most of the ones I've seen are really light armor, think pistol rounds, not multiple .50BMG rated on the glass. In either case it's a waste of tax dollars.

The militarization of our peace officers since the 1970s is a problem for a free country. In a free country there simply isn't a need for a LEA parading around like a internal military. The Founding Fathers were right, the greatest threat to the liberties of the people is a standing army. The politicians have found a way to create an internal, standing army yet not call it that.

MarcSpaz wrote:A few examples


Passaic County S.W.A.T. team

http://media.northjersey.com/images/012 ... mobile.jpg

New Orleans Metro Police LAV-25 C2 Vehicle.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-67IhlZas03M/U ... 086cx3.jpg

Chicago Police MRAP

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N4W1v5CrAn0/U ... 279-vi.jpg

Doraville Police M-113A3

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KPEOp045Rs0/U ... lle_lg.jpg

All of those are urban APCs. SWAT has no lawful use for them and they are a waste of tax payer dollars. It wasn't that long ago when the site of something like that on the countries streets implied dictatorship and no freedom.

MarcSpaz wrote:What I don't get is local, county and state police agencies all over the country have had armored SWAT vehicles that look and are equipped like this for decades. So why is it an issue for DHS? You guys are getting too paranoid.

I have no issue with local law enforcement SWAT units having this type of vehicle. My question is, why does Homeland Security (e.g. the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT) need them at all and in that quantity?

Paranoid? Hardly. Paying attention.