Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Wouldn't it make sense (at least to 2A believers) to have a NATIONAL Concealed Carry Permit (CCP)?

And while we're at it, WHY aren't knives included?

The whole ideal of 50 states having 50 different policies (Shall/Must Issue, etc.) and the stupidity of constantly changing reciprocity rules makes a hodgepodge which decentralizes, confuses, and diminishes efforts to come up with a coherent national policy.

A similar issue can be related in the National Background Check for buying firearms from FFLs (and even private sales).

Imagine if the same process was used for DMV purposes: Driver's Licenses. What if each state had their own format for the DL and only allowed certain other states to have reciprocity???? In fact, the first part of this was true until recently. Each state DID have their own format. But the federal government wanted to initiate a Federal ID system. Congress continually opposed such a system of FID. So our government decided to force states to come up with a federal driver's license or lose Federal Highway Money. This led to a common Picture ID with all sorts of hard-to-duplicate attributes including a photo (capable of storing biometric information and other personal information), etc. In short, what Congress refused to allow (remember the Stars of David in Nazi Germany and "Papieren Bitte" (Your Papers Please)) the Executive Branch forced on the states anyway.

So we do now have a National ID Card (the Driver's License) and it's good in every state in the Union.

Well, instead of 50 different state residents having to constantly watch out for what their state government is doing regarding CCP, why don't we ALL petition our federal government for a DMV ENDORSEMENT on our DLs for Concealed Weapons Permit?????????? Difficult you ask? Impossible you say? Well, so is getting rid of Gun Free School Zones and having to watch all 50 different state legislatures.

Now, obviously a Driver's License is not something you get without Driver's Ed training. Why? Because, for one reason, cars can kill people. I'm not suggesting that a National CCP Endorsement (NCCE) should be something we should have to have. There could still be a state CCP available to state residents who can get them without any training, etc. But imagine if the NRA (or some other national organization) had a unified program for NCCE education that included the basics of owning, operating, and using (under a national use law) AND an NCIC National Background Check and once you took this course and passed, you got a DMV Endorsement on your Driver's License?

Now let's take that one step further. Imagine IF you had a NCCE on your DL, IT SATISFIES THE BACKGROUND CHECK FOR WEAPONS PURCHASES. In other words, your DL (if it has a NCCE) would REMOVE the need for a background check every time you wanted to buy a weapon. Why? Because you've already been cleared by virtue of your NCCE. Of course, DLs are revoked for criminal offenses and the NCCE could be revoked as well. In this way the bureaucracy for denying weapons purchases would be integrated into DMV records and the courts and the ridiculous systems now in place (which are not very effective/efficient anyway) could be eliminated. For that matter the NFA/ATF system for weapons tax transfers for Class 3/Destructive Devices could be streamlined and you wouldn't have to wait 9 months to buy a suppressor.

In my opinion, as long as we as individuals just follow the same path of REACTING to "feel good" legislation that has the ultimate effect of narrowing and eliminating our 2A rights, and as long as it is the Democrats against the Republicans or Move ON vs. NRA, we are all going down a slippery slope.

Just imagine traveling across the entire country with a NCCE on your DL. And keep in mind that everyone with one would have learned the basics about handling their concealed weapon and what to do/not do with it!

Just imagine going to a gun shop of gun show and presenting your NCCE on your DL and not having to put up with all the stupid hoops that don't prevent much gun violence in the first place.

This past week my wife and I took a trip to Baltimore. We both felt a lot more worried about walking down a city street knowing we had to keep our sidearms at home.

Let's think about a creative way of pushing back at the national level for a NCCE.

Thanks for your consideration.

Charlie

It sounds good on the surface from a standpoint of assumed streamlining and efficiency, but on balance, I don't like it at all.

(1) Federalizing yet another function can’t possibly be a good thing, period.

(2) This notion of a nationwide CHP scheme would put the feds in charge to the CHP process. The power for the feds to regulate or tax a thing equals the power to kill it. If the Feds control the CHP process, they can obstruct issues by bureaucratic and/or executive fiat. Seems to me the gun-grabbers will only have to hit one target then; that being the feds. Think about a federal requirement that you have a 5-million-dollar liability policy before you can get a CHP. Same thing goes for background checks. Before Obama is done, we might all be damn glad to have the quirky, clunky, slow (for some; I have had only one delay), understaffed Virginia Background check system.

(3) Tying the CHP process to driver’s licensing is a bad idea because (a) it would seem to condition having a CHP on having a driver’s license, and (b) A driver’s license is a privilege granted by the state and may be administratively revoked for many reasons, but the right to bear arms is a God-given, constitutionally-protected right. What happens to the CHP when Virginia revokes your driver’s license because you got a reckless driving ticket or failed to file the post-accident insurance form thingie and the state cop comes after your driver’s license? And what happens when the feds condition the federal highway funds on more restrictive CHP standards? The state bureaucrats, as a group, will sell us out to protect their budgets in a Noo Yawk minute.

(4) I could go on for a while, but I’ve got some fires to put out here at the office. But study ‘bout this for a spell, folks.

dormanWS

I see your concerns, but take note:

Right now we don't have ANY privileges (or rights) to CC or OC in MANY states and crossing state borders adds to the problems.

I suggested that a NCCE be something that we could request as an OPTION to our DMV-DL and did not advocate eliminating states rights as they stand now.

Consider that, until about a year ago, even law enforcement officers weren't granted universal carry across state lines.

I guess we could consider abolishing the Federal Government if it is such a terrible entity, but keep in mind the US Supreme Court is in a position to control all of this discussion as are the lower federal courts.

I'm aware that there are those who don't want any laws governing guns, but we all have seen how this has gone. Even in Tombstone, Wyatt Earp made you check your guns at the city line.

Currently there is an absolute mentality of "us vs. them." There appears no room for compromise.

In 1968 (I think it was 68), during all the riots)), Senator Hughes of NJ was able to slip in - at the last minute - a huge change to the NFA (read: NATIONAL Firearms Act of 1933). And later in 1986 (? again I might have date wrong) the NFA ended up restricting the sales of Class 3 firearms/DDs/Suppressors and then those made after a certain date. The result is that you CAN buy Class 3/DDs in CERTAIN states, but the value of those that are transferable has skyrocketed. WHY? Simple supply and demand. The government has arbitrarily limited supply. Now an M-16 that might cost $1,500, costs over $20,000 IF it's transferable.

So, you see, the federal government IS involved and making more and more laws (and regulations) as we speak. The ATF is copying 4474s ILLEGALLY.

Just imagine what it would do to crime in this country if a (OPTIONAL) federal law existed as I have proposed. It would end up negating all the stupid laws already on the books.

Not only that, the issue of confiscation with universal background checks WOULD GO AWAY. Why? Because there would be an alternative to the whole background check procedure with every firearm purchase. You could still have to go through it IF you didn't have an NCCE, but if you did have an NCCE there would not have to be any additional checks for every purchase you make, in fact why even need the 4474 anymore (for those with the NCCE)?

Right now, every time you purchase from an FFL, you have to go through the process and the federal government is your bogey man here. My solution gets rid of the bogey man.

Even private purchases would be enhanced with the NCCE, because when I buy a gun privately now, it's difficult for me to know if the seller is legit. That's why most private purchases in VA are encouraged to require a VA DMV document AND a CHP along with a BOS.

Personally, I wish as a citizen, I could access the NCIC to find out if the weapon I'm considering buying privately might have been used in a crime. The last thing I want is to buy a $75 Ruger .357M and then end up in jail because it killed someone two years ago and I'm now the owner.

As the rules of law stand now, they tend to take away - not support - our rights. And we appear to be in a place where they could get worse.

Along with a NCCE, a plan to educate how having armed citizens in your midst is a GOOD THING would go a long way to making the issues of Guns and Gun Violence more productive, practical, and safe.

I have to be careful in Charlottesville when I carry to make sure I'm not walking on Grounds (UVa property). Does this make any sense? In NJ, where I lived, you couldn't even BUY a pistol without a huge 6 month period of nonsense. Then when I got to a dealer and went to buy one, the dealer showed me the fine print that my 30 days were up yesterday and my permit to purchase had expired. Where do you think I got my pistol that year? Of course try to get a CCP in NJ. It's only possible for friends of the chiefs of police and politicians.

Consider any movie or student lecture hall. Concealed carry makes so much sense, it's not even funny. How long does it take for SWAT to gear up? When seconds count, the police are minutes away.......................

These issues are not state or municipal problems. The 2A is a federal law. It needs to be codified for all at the national level, especially for concealed carry.

I respect your opinion that a lot of federal laws are wrong, but the bottom line is that 2A is SUPPOSED to be the law of the land and look at all the obstacles we have. A properly worded NCCE seems to me a way to open up the issue of "self protection" well beyond the home (and would end up protecting more than just the person(s) carrying) in many/most cases without the others even being aware of how their safety has been improved.

I too have a lot of fires to put out and rarely have time to read or post here. But I hope this subject gets some (more) peer review and thoughtful discussion about SOLUTIONS to the dreadful issue of gun banning going on right now (at ALL levels of government).

cdm