Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I think I have narrowed it down to one of these in 3" as another carry piece. I have shot my cousins Kimber, nice but I did not feel great about it. I have not shot the Sig or Springfield just held them in stores. Any advise on these?

I like my springfield

I think they are both about the same. Either would work fine for carry and the quality is sufficient for the task. I would choose based on which features you like best and what's available. That being said...

I'm not a fan of short 1911s for self defense (really .45s, but by far the most popular are these mini 1911s). Two reasons. First, there seems to be a lot more problems with short barrelled 1911s; the design was simply never intended to work that way. In no way is the 1911 unique in this observation. For example, mess around with the AR15 and we start discussing which gas system, how large the gas port should be, which buffer to use, etc. These things can be worked (better yet engineered) around, but personally I think 3" is too short on a .45ACP.

The second reason has to with the bullet. Hollow Points are designed to expand at various velocities and handgun bullets are no exceptions. There are no magic bullets and the generally accepted reliable expansion window for a handgun bullet is approx. 200fps. Shoot is slower and the probability of expansion goes way down; shoot it faster and it fragments. Rifle bullets are no different, but typically have larger windows due to the physics involved. The problem is that most .45ACP HPs are designed for the nominal 5" barrel of the 1911. Even the short barrelled stuff is typically tested at 4", which is more or less the standard length barrel for other calibers. There are precious few companies providing 3" barrelled .45ACP ammo. The problem is that a 3" barrel looses enough velocity that right out of the muzzle it's just below or right at the 200fps window. Expansion *might* be iffy, but the reality is that there aren't enough of these guns used in SD to really know. The gel tests I've seen seem to back this up, but even then it requires a lot of gel testing across lots to get a decent answer. Due to manufacturing tolerances, lot A might always expand and lot B might never (since you're at the edge of the design window). It's not that the bullet is worthless, but rather that it's no longer operating within it's optimal range. However, if you like it, go for it. It's just not for me.

Wow thanks for the info. I did look at the 4" version and it looked like the same size as my glock19. Maybe I should just buy a full size 1911. I do have 2 carry pieces already. Decisions to be made...

I don't have a lot of experience with 1911s (yet) -- the closest thing I own to one is a Tokarev. I've carried a SIG 228 frequently, and think it is much easier to field strip and reassemble. If you can't decide which one to get, just decide which one to get first.

4" barreled 1911's are the sweet spot for velocity. With the 3" you loose a ton of speed and with the 5" it's not that huge of an increase over the 4".

I recently had the opportunity to work on a new Sig 1911 Carry Nightmare. It was a very impressive 1911. I would not change a single thing about it (except the trigger, I run flat triggers in all my 1911's, however Sig has 4" models with the flat trigger). The Carry Nightmare is a bobtailed 1911, so it carries very well. The finish on it is Sig's nitron finish and is a very nice dull black that is the same as the slides on the P226/229/228/etc. The trigger pull was nice (even with the added firing pin safety system of the Series 80 style) around 4.5lbs and sharp. The sights were Novak style and easy to pick up. When I shot it at the range at around 7-10 yards or so, all my shots were dead center. It was amazingly accurate.

That said, If I were buying a 4" 1911, I'd get the Springfield lightweight champion. It's decently priced and has an aluminum frame, which cuts down on the weight. They also have a version with the rail (Lightweight champion operator) which is the one I REALLY want! Sig does not offer aluminum framed 1911's.

The 4" 1911's are about the exact same size as the Glock 19 (as mentioned)
My current 4" 1911 carry gun is a Kimber Pro Carry II. It was cheaper than most other 4" guns and had the aluminum frame that I wanted to save weight. It's been 100% reliable thus far, but needed some work on things that I didn't like about it (grip safety, rough finish inside, weak finish on the frame, sloppy extractor and sloppy firing pin stop, rough fire control parts and very rough trigger track)

I have shot a lot of 1911's over the years and my sig has what I would consider the best out of the box trigger. I've had it side by side with a Kimber and still like the sig trigger better. That was not just my opinion either. There was a detective there who is a shooting instructor that felt the same way.

I'd also vote for the Springfield, they've been in the 1911 game a long time. And I'd also caution against the 3" as well, too many reliability problems unless you spend lots of cash on a semi-custom gun. A good 4" or 4.25" barreled gun would be an excellent choice, such as a Springfield Champion or a Colt Commander.

Thanks for all the responses, I will go after the 4" seeing its about the same size as my G19 which carry's real well for me IWB.

After reading and researching I may be after a 1911 in 38super. I found a Colt commander that just surprised me with the weight compared to the Sig and Springfield and felt very comfortable in my hand.

I recently purchased the Sig 1911 Tacops. Love it! I second the feelings on the Sig trigger.

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Can't go wrong with sig I've only heard good things about them.

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I purchased the Sig 1911 C3, Dead on out of the box at 10 meters, Love this gun for carry.

I can't comment about the SA 1911's but I've been very pleased with a pair of Sigs.

Sig makes (and has made but discontinued) quite a variety of 1911s. Their "Carry" models are basically 1911 Commander-size models and their "Compacts" are CCO-sized. They offer Compact models with steel frames and with alloy frames; the available Carry models all seem to have steel frames, but I wouldn't swear to that.

Some of their early production 1911s apparently had some problems, and I had some reputable dealers advise me against purchasing one. I disregarded the advice, and fortunately for me the advice was dated--Sig had apparently fixed the problems. Mine--a full size w rail and a steel-frame compact, were produced in early 2011 or later and both have been flawless--tight fit, perfect function, very accurate out of the box. They are both a delight to shoot and I have complete confidence in them.

.38 Super is relatively hard to find ammo, and is very hard on the gun, since it operates at a high pressure. I'd stick with .45 unless you plan on competing with it (as .38 Super is a competition round, mainly.)

I would also again point towards Springfield being the better 1911 of the two brands. They've been in the game longer and have a full service custom shop.

Honestly either one would be great. Everything comes down to preference and what feels great to you.

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RocKor wrote:.38 Super is relatively hard to find ammo, and is very hard on the gun, since it operates at a high pressure. I'd stick with .45 unless you plan on competing with it (as .38 Super is a competition round, mainly.)

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