Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Shock claim: Obama only wants military leaders who 'will fire on U.S. citizens'



http://www.examiner.com/article/shock-c ... s-citizens

If he doesn't believe in his own oath of office, then it would make sense that he would expect no less from the military officers under his command.

Is there any doubt where this is going.

Kind of makes you wonder if this is why Stanley McChrystal wants us disarmed.

This is probably more related to drone attacks, if actually "true" in any normal sense. Still terrible.

If it is true then it is time he left office.

It is BS. If anyone believes this, they do not understand the military.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I understand the military, they're programmed to be killing machines and follow orders without hesitation. Hesitation on the battlefield will get you killed. But that's soldiers.

Now generals, they scare me. They have all the training and experiance of a seasoned soldier with the cunning and conscience of a politician!

Kinetic is correct.

Generals have the luxuries that the lower echelon do NOT have... the ability to influence politicians. Look at Powell now, he's schill for the Liberal agenda. I USED to respect the man, and what he did in Desert Storm, now I change the channel when he's on screen.

Same for Petreyus, and McChrystal... I have no respect for them.

But those Devil Dogs, and Grunts sitting in Afghanistan, and other hotspots, I respect greatly. Too bad the politicians have stacked the deck against them.

It is BS. If anyone believes this, they do not understand the military.

Well I like to think I understand the military at least a little bit and I like to think everyone in the service then and now understands the oath they took to defend this country against all enemies foreign and domestic. Arab1302 care to explain your position a little further? I am not so sure that this possibility could not happen. If we look to history millions of people have been eliminated through out the world (Turkey, China, Russia, Germany, Cambodia, etc.) with the aid and support of the countries military establishment. i'd like to hear your perspective on why this could not happen in the USA.

Doyle wrote:

It is BS. If anyone believes this, they do not understand the military.

Well I like to think I understand the military at least a little bit and I like to think everyone in the service then and now understands the oath they took to defend this country against all enemies foreign and domestic. Arab1302 care to explain your position a little further? I am not so sure that this possibility could not happen. If we look to history millions of people have been eliminated through out the world (Turkey, China, Russia, Germany, Cambodia, etc.) with the aid and support of the countries military establishment. i'd like to hear your perspective on why this could not happen in the USA.

Because we swear an oath to the US Constitution, we are not bound by unlawful orders. Trust me the US Military, at least a large part, would not turn on the American public. Won't happen.

Not so far feched. Look what they are indoctrinating our future army officers with (this report out of West Point):

http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uplo ... elines.pdf

"There are three major ideological movements within the American violent far right: a racist/white supremacy movement, an anti-federalist movement and a fundamentalist movement. The ideological characteristics of the different movements affect their operations in terms of tactics used, targets selected, and operations conducted. [snip]

Violence derived from the modern anti-federalist movement appeared in full force only in the early to mid-1990s and is interested in undermining the influence, legitimacy and effective sovereignty of the federal government and its proxy organizations. The anti-federalist rationale is multifaceted, and includes the beliefs that the American political system and its proxies were hijacked by external forces interested in promoting a “New World Order” (NWO) in which the United States will be absorbed into the United Nations or another version of global government. They also espouse strong convictions regarding the federal government, believing it to be corrupt and tyrannical, with a natural tendency to intrude on individuals’ civil and constitutional rights. Finally, they support civil activism, individual freedoms, and self government. Extremists in the anti-federalist movement direct most their violence against the federal government and its proxies in law enforcement."

Damn! Apparently I'm a terrorist!

by Machias » Wed, 23 Jan 2013 08:21:10

Doyle wrote:
It is BS. If anyone believes this, they do not understand the military.


Well I like to think I understand the military at least a little bit and I like to think everyone in the service then and now understands the oath they took to defend this country against all enemies foreign and domestic. Arab1302 care to explain your position a little further? I am not so sure that this possibility could not happen. If we look to history millions of people have been eliminated through out the world (Turkey, China, Russia, Germany, Cambodia, etc.) with the aid and support of the countries military establishment. i'd like to hear your perspective on why this could not happen in the USA.


Because we swear an oath to the US Constitution, we are not bound by unlawful orders. Trust me the US Military, at least a large part, would not turn on the American public. Won't happen.

Yes we all did swear to that oath. I'm just wondering how many will stand up if the need arises. I hope you are right. I am with you and all of those proud Americans that spoke those words and will hold the Constitution above the piety dictates of a tyrant.

I was going to point out the oath regarding domestic as well. Glad someone else did. If the reasoning was anything more it would be a form of domestic terrorism which I'm sure would already have been screamed from every Republican rooftop.

Good morning to all with a wake-up call...
The problem is not that a part of military will not fire. The problem is with that part that will fire, and with all blackwater and brown shirts thugs. And they are too many.
You can stop the poop only before it starts, going grey now only guarantees they victory. Going grey after they win is a survival condition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pite%C8%99ti_prison

Most of your Blackwater contractor types are some of the truest Patriots out there, they will not fire on their friends and neighbors. This is not some 3rd world country, the military has alot of great patriots leading them and within their ranks.

I have served in the military for over 23 years, and I can attest that there are many who either do not care about or do not understand the Constitution. I have heard such statements directly from the lips of several mid-grade officers. There are certainly many others who take their oaths very seriously. I think it's a mistake to say that the military would do either this or that. It is not nearly so monolithic. If a split were to occur, we would see people in the military taking different sides in accordance with their beliefs, just as our ancestors did. I pray it doesn't come to that. It didn't go too well for my family the last time around.

wpoppert wrote:I have served in the military for over 23 years, and I can attest that there are many who either do not care about or do not understand the Constitution. I have heard such statements directly from the lips of several mid-grade officers. There are certainly many others who take their oaths very seriously. I think it's a mistake to say that the military would do either this or that. It is not nearly so monolithic. If a split were to occur, we would see people in the military taking different sides in accordance with their beliefs, just as our ancestors did. I pray it doesn't come to that. It didn't go too well for my family the last time around.

Agreed. I never knew what my oath meant until I was much wiser and mature.

Doyle wrote:

It is BS. If anyone believes this, they do not understand the military.

Well I like to think I understand the military at least a little bit and I like to think everyone in the service then and now understands the oath they took to defend this country against all enemies foreign and domestic. Arab1302 care to explain your position a little further? I am not so sure that this possibility could not happen. If we look to history millions of people have been eliminated through out the world (Turkey, China, Russia, Germany, Cambodia, etc.) with the aid and support of the countries military establishment. i'd like to hear your perspective on why this could not happen in the USA.

Guys, I am sorry it has taken so long to reply. I saw this earlier today, but I was on a mobile device and my ability to compose a coherent reply on the small screen was limited. I suspect a number of the replies after this one capture the essence of my thought. I am not going to kill myself trying to quote every single reply, but here are my thoughts on why the original article is BS. Like another member stated, the US military is not monolithic. Even if every single General swore an oath to Obama that they would kill Americans it would have little to no impact on the vast majority of military personnel. If that even happened, I would think that 98% of them were going along to get another star, but would never actually go along if it came to pass. It is one thing to get promoted, but a vastly different thing to kill your neighbor.

Military personnel, regardless of MOS or occupational field, are not mindless killers. Not even snipers. We are human beings. It is far easier to use patriotism and pride to get a guy to accomplish the mission than it is to "desensitize a soldier to kill without remorse." That kind of language is what the people on the left use against the likes of us, lawful gun owners.

Whether you understand your oath or not, you are not going to suddenly go ass crazy just because someone told you to head to Fredericksburg and take out some guy on Princess Anne Street because he had the temerity to buy a Barrett .50 cal. There are so many things between the order and the action to keep that kind of stupidity from happening.

Now, reality check. Are their guys in the military who will kill Americans? Hell yes. Happens all the time. Just head to Leavenworth and you will see a pile of them. All shitbirds. Why? Because we are human. Your ability to get through Parris Island doesn't make you a paragon of virtue. We have plenty of losers who get through and continue to wreak havoc. I like to think that we screen most of them out, but where there is a crack, there is a guy that will slip through it. Ultimately, my comment is based on the fact that the military will not act against the people. It is not based on whether or not a few random assclowns will do something stupid. They are going to do that even if Obama said nothing.

My last comment is this. I don't recall which member said it, but there was a comment about mid grade officers not getting the oath. There are thousands more mid grade officers in the military as a whole and in any given Service than you would ever be able to meet. I realize I am being a little bit sensitive, but stupidity happens at all ranks. Single one out and you will invariably have the reader (or listener) discount your argument because they think you have a problem with people who outrank you. This is a personal observation so please feel free to flame me for it. Just don't vote for gun control.

Reverenddel wrote: Look at Powell now, he's schill for the Liberal agenda. I USED to respect the man, and what he did in Desert Storm, now I change the channel when he's on screen.

IIRC.....several years ago, in an interview, Powell said he was against civilians being armed. He was very much against the 2nd Amendment.