Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Looking to purchase a used 22 LR revolver for CC. Something along the lines of a S&W model 43C or Taurus model 94B2UL.

A snub nosed 22 for CC? Not trying to mettle in your business but a 22 snub nose would leave me feeling very insecure. You are looking at a 40 grain bullet at about 850 fps. in a snub.

Speer has a .22 Magnum cartridge that may be a viable option for personal defense in a snub nosed revolver. But, I would only suggest this as an option for someone who could not handle a .38 Special.

http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/954.htm

You'll only piss someone off with a .22

Maybe they like the sound of someone saying "hey that tickles".

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Seeing as this is the "want to buy", and not the "want to be critiqued by those who have no knowledge of my needs or intentions" section, I have a Ruger LCR-22 up on another forum:http://www.vaguntrader.com/forums/ubbth ... Post436096

FatAndy wrote:Seeing as this is the "want to buy", and not the "want to be critiqued by those who have no knowledge of my needs or intentions" section, I have a Ruger LCR-22 up on another forum:http://www.vaguntrader.com/forums/ubbth ... Post436096

Or you could see it as friendly advice for a new member who may not have any firearm experience.

Apologies for the vague post. Thanks FatAndy. I am an experienced gun owner. I recently received a 1000+ round windfall of 22 LR cheap ammo (Winchester 555 36 gr 1280 FPS HP copper plated) that jams up in everything else I've tried using it in (Sig Mosquito and Ruger 10/22). I was thinking of a decent 22 CC revolver as I do not have one. Also possibly as a CC for the wife (who won't shoot anything but). I was previously a member here but found out I'd lost access so I re-joined. All jokers aside, I wouldn't want to be shot even once with a 22 round by an experienced marksman. Would you? If anyone has opinions as to better option revolvers for this ammo I'm open to suggestions. I am in the Tidewater area. FatAndy, I already own a Ruger LCR 380 and am looking for a different make. Thanks

ProShooter wrote:You'll only piss someone off with a .22

you keep thinking that ... I just got a brand new Ruger 22/45 Lite ... I promise for every time you miss with a 9mm 38 380 or any other choice ... that kick ass .22 will put 3 rounds in the same hole... and will pop off 10 rounds faster than any othergun I own ... wish I had bought 2, one for each hand !!

bullitt wrote:Apologies for the vague post. Thanks FatAndy. I am an experienced gun owner. I recently received a 1000+ round windfall of 22 LR cheap ammo (Winchester 555 36 gr 1280 FPS HP copper plated) that jams up in everything else I've tried using it in (Sig Mosquito and Ruger 10/22). I was thinking of a decent 22 CC revolver as I do not have one. Also possibly as a CC for the wife (who won't shoot anything but). I was previously a member here but found out I'd lost access so I re-joined. All jokers aside, I wouldn't want to be shot even once with a 22 round by an experienced marksman. Would you? If anyone has opinions as to better option revolvers for this ammo I'm open to suggestions. I am in the Tidewater area. FatAndy, I already own a Ruger LCR 380 and am looking for a different make. Thanks

Did you get one or not ?

Racn35 wrote:

ProShooter wrote:You'll only piss someone off with a .22

you keep thinking that ... I just got a brand new Ruger 22/45 Lite ... I promise for every time you miss with a 9mm 38 380 or any other choice ... that kick ass .22 will put 3 rounds in the same hole... and will pop off 10 rounds faster than any othergun I own ... wish I had bought 2, one for each hand !!

From a draw (this is CC right?) and at what distance? I may not get 10 rounds off in the time you do, but I bet I can get around 7 good center of mass hits with a G19 in the time you get 10 with your .22. That's just a guess based on shooting 9mm and .22lr out the same G19 platform, and honestly I'm not that good. No one wants to get shot, even with a BB/pellet/paintball gun, but that doesn't make them a good CC option. However, if the OPs wife won't shoot anything but .22lr, it *might* be better than nothing. I'd at least try a .22Mag setup as his wife is unlikely to notice much difference in recoil, but you have much better bullets commonly available and a bit more energy to work with.

gunderwood wrote: From a draw (this is CC right?) and at what distance? I may not get 10 rounds off in the time you do, but I bet I can get around 7 good center of mass hits with a G19 in the time you get 10 with your .22. That's just a guess based on shooting 9mm and .22lr out the same G19 platform, and honestly I'm not that good. No one wants to get shot, even with a BB/pellet/paintball gun, but that doesn't make them a good CC option. However, if the OPs wife won't shoot anything but .22lr, it *might* be better than nothing. I'd at least try a .22Mag setup as his wife is unlikely to notice much difference in recoil, but you have much better bullets commonly available and a bit more energy to work with.

+1 and then some...

Here is a local instructor shooting a Bill Drill at 7 yards with an HK 45 (.45 ACP). He's shooting at a rate of better than 5 rounds per second and shows that training and technique makes all the difference.

It may surprise folks just how well a .22LR will perform on defense. I know it surprised me when I read this very good comparison of actual shooting data: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power

lonestarag wrote:It may surprise folks just how well a .22LR will perform on defense. I know it surprised me when I read this very good comparison of actual shooting data: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power

This is an age old debate about how to measure effectiveness. Real events are not uniform for many reasons, so it makes it very hard to compared them. Threats are stopped for a variety of reasons, often their own mental desire to stop getting shot. However, you can not count on that because a determined threat likely will not stop simply because they were stopped. Thankfully, determined threats are relatively rare. Real world results are skewed by a large number of threats that simply stop because they were shot, not because of what they were shot with. It's like winning a NASCAR race with your old beater of a car simply because everyone else wreaked or broke down.

Only blood loss and central nervous system damage (spin/head) will actually stop an attacker (rather than them stopping themselves), and only CNS will stop them immediately. CNS shots are hard and increase the risk of missing/hitting innocents, thus we usually train for center of mass shots which require blood loss to be effective. A .22 creates a tiny wound compared to any of the other calibers on that list and thus will have less blood loss. Less blood loss means more time for your attacker to keep attacking before losing enough to be physically incapacitated. Even the common handgun calibers are less effective than we would like them to be, but they are decent compromises given the other trade-offs (recoil, size, etc.).

The creator of that link hasn't created anything new. It's been tried for decades to use real events to judge handgun caliber effectiveness. Generally, it's been shown that there are many other reasons why real events end than simply caliber effectiveness, so determining a causal relationship isn't possible. Besides, the sample space on that link is terrible.

lonestarag wrote:It may surprise folks just how well a .22LR will perform on defense. I know it surprised me when I read this very good comparison of actual shooting data: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun- ... er</a><!-- m -->

It's the percentage NOT stopped by .22 that is worrisome.

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Would anyone put a .22 conversion slide assembly on their Glock 19 and carry that instead of the 9mm? Same size, same trigger, but; does anyone seriously think the .22 is an equal defensive caliber?

Chasbo00 wrote:Would anyone put a .22 conversion slide assembly on their Glock 19 and carry that instead of the 9mm? Same size, same trigger, but; does anyone seriously think the .22 is an equal defensive caliber?

Of course, just look at the data! Comparing .22s with 9mm, blue is a win, yellow is awash, and red is a loss. .22lr easily matches and generally beats 9mm except in the percentage of people not incapacitated, but that's easily explained away, not as a caliber deficiency, but simply those with .22s didn't shoot as much because they are nicer people.

.22 (short, long and long rifle)

# of people shot - 154
# of hits - 213
% of hits that were fatal - 34%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.38
% of people who were not incapacitated - 31%
One-shot-stop % - 31%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 60%

9mm Luger

# of people shot - 456
# of hits - 1121
% of hits that were fatal - 24%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.45
% of people who were not incapacitated - 13%
One-shot-stop % - 34%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 74%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 47%

Anecdotal data based statistics - it's the new science.

Interesting data. What is the source and does data exist for 45ACP using the same methodology?

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GeneFrenkle wrote:Interesting data. What is the source and does data exist for 45ACP using the same methodology?

It's from a post above and my post was heavy with sarcasm. As I said before, people have been trying to use this methodology for decades and it's been demonstrated to be junk. The link in question isn't even a very good variant on the theme.

It may surprise folks just how well a .22LR will perform on defense. I know it surprised me when I read this very good comparison of actual shooting data: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power