Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Hello all, I am a new member here. I shoot long range bolt rifles .50BMG. 338Lapua, 308 and others. Also machineguns including subguns and beltfed, supressed rifles and also shoot live artillery.
Recently I joined PNTC in Glen Gary, WVA after reading some advertizing online about their facility touting it as a "world class shooting facility". OK sounded good. Well, it's my opinion that is a very subjective description. I have shot all over the world on different ranges, and in my opinion this facility has L O N G way to go to reach that lofty description. Most ranges have covered positions, but the targets and target frames are about non-existant, except for the private side, where they have Kongsberg electronic targets, which you'll probably never be able to use! The roads are basically rough dozer cut, with little or no stone, which erodes out to washboard conditions a lot.

The facility is 77 miles from my home, which is quite a hike, BUT according to their sales hype and rules at the time we joined, .50bmg and most other long range calibers were permitted. I visited the place with a shooting friend and we both joined that day.

Fantastic... finally a place to shoot my .50's and long range rifles. We asked management multiple times to make sure it was not a misunderstanding, and we were told absolutely .50 bmg was fine to shoot at the facility.
(My friend bought his first .50 bolt rifle (Armalite AR50) predicated on this fact ($3K, in addition to $3k in reloading gear.$6K total.)
Now comes the reality about shooting on the "private side" with the 1000yd range, you'll probably only be able to shoot there 1-2 times a year, maybe! You cannot shoot on this side until you qualify on the public side,1 moa max for EVERY gun you want to shoot, have your target signed off by an RSO, then fill out a range card for each and every rifle.Then you can shoot on the private side where the 1000 yd "world class" range is..right? In reality probably not. "IF" there are events happening where action psitol is held, no shooting on the 1000 yd range for you! Check the calendar, there are events that preempt that range frequently, which was convieniently no mentioned when we joined.

I shot my .50 on the public side twice. The target frames on the public side at 100yds are marginal, but usable. Out at 200 -300 yds, there are no target frames..HMMM. They do have a few steel targets set out, but in my opinion are totally inadequate to handle even a moderate amount of hits. I base this opinion on my professional experience currently manufacturing AR500 steel targets.
I broke the single piece of #4 rebar that held the steel target in one place in the center of the plate, on the first shot using 648 gr monolithic bronze solids. No api or apit is allowed or ANY magnetic projo's. The steel targets , if you could call them that, are a joke at best, certainly not world class.

Two weeks ago I called out to PNTC to make sure I could shoot that day with no conflicting events, and was told PNTC was no longer allowing .50bmg, .408 or .416!!! Just like that. What I was told was that they could no longer support those calibers. whatever that means. I asked and there were no overflights, no accidents. They said no but no real adequate explanations were given for the change ion policy.
In my opinion this was a really crappy way of doing business and treating members.
If you're looking for a place to shoot 1000yd's, you may want to look elsewhere, I am for sure.
Very disappointed in this place.
R.Leyshion, Jr.

IMHO, Peacemaker National is a decent range, but still does have a long way to go. They keep expanding it and making it better and hopefully it will get where it needs to be soon. The limiting of big caliber long range rifles is a bad move and I'm not happy about it either. Damage to targets is what I heard, but that wouldn't be a problem if they weren't so focused on those electronic targets. I'd be happy if they only allowed them on paper, junk steel or even your own targets. That 1k range is disappointing because of how they laid it out. The tactical range, which is used far more often, is right beside the 1k. It seems they've really set up the 1k range for benchrest competitions and not much else.

On the bright side, there is supposed to be a unknown distance range out to ~1400 yards, but I have not check that out.

As for other ranges, there aren't many. Quantico, but that's open for 1k even less than Peacemaker. The next closest I am aware of is Lewistown, PA. The range is on the side of a mountain and goes to 1k. Roads getting to the range are similar to Peacemaker, but the road to access targets beyond 500 yards is very rough. Again, no AP, API, etc. which is a shame.

Like usual, it's a handful of bad actors who screw it up for everyone else. Blowing stuff up with firearms is fun, but then they shoot good targets and ruin them or don't clean up the mess. Peacemaker always has RSO's, so I don't see the problem with making rules that don't permit shooting their nice targets with large caliber rifles. Much harder to enforce at a private range like Lewistown, PA where members are the RSOs.

Gunderwood: I am starting a serious search for property to lease from Front Royal all the way to Harrisonburg to shoot .50bmg. Interested or know some good folks that are? Ideally, if we can get 5-10 RESPONSIBLE big bore shooters, maybe we can lease some property to shoot our .50bmg's.
I will provide a target rack that can survive direct .50 hits with no damage. It has 4 positions to hang AR500 plate targets. I currently use 1/2" round plates, suspended by Grade 70 chain. A little more substantial than the enemic/absurd piece of #4 rebar they have jammed into loose dirt, holding the plate at PNTC. Yea..thats really going to last.
I offered this super duty rack to Cole at PNTC (conditionally), "BEFORE", he changed the big bore policy at PNTC. "IF", we could have continued to shoot .50bmg there, I would have given it to him as a donation, as in free! There's no way now. I build them for about $2K. I'll keep this one in the event I find property to set up shooting positions. The frame is 180Klb silicon vanadium steel, tough yet not brittle,bolyted together with 180KLB bolts at critical points, welded in others.
I am a voting/owner/ member of the Fairfax Rod and Gun Club in Manassas, 10 minutes from home. No .50's there either, but thats understandable. The club is inhabited and run mostly by Fudds' with Perazzi's, so they could give a rip about long range tactical shooters. This truely"IS" a world class facility though, with covered ranges, good tables, good roads, power for laptops or chrono's, and a nice clubhouse. But no .50's. It is also a private club, so you have to be sponsored by 2 members in good standing.
We have ranges up to 300 yds(one position), but about 10 at 200 meters with nice steel (thanks to me) to shoot at. We have around 400 acres surrounding the club.
I never deluded myself from the beginning concerning PNTC, but believed there was a lot of potential to be had there. Now..I'm not so sure with some of the erratic management style I'm seeing firsthand as a new member.
I wish them well, but I won't make the trip as often now, with a much better range only 10 miles away.
W.W.

How long has Peacemaker been open? a year? I think they have accomplished quite a bit.
sure, they have growing pains - but what they are trying to accomplish is quite significant, and it will take time to work out the bugs. I have been there a couple of times and met some great folks that are intent on
making peacemaker a great place to shoot. Give em time -they will fix it.

I just joined, and I'm looking forward to using the facility. $200 a year. Fairfax Rod and Gun is significantly
closer to my home. I simply could not afford the $1500 initiation fee AND the $350 a year annual fee.
But, no doubt, FRGC is a nice club. But it will NEVER have a long range. Peacemaker already does, albeit a bit problematic at this time. Also , the IDPA and IPSC games are growing leaps and bounds at Peacemaker -
they have the commitment and space to make it happen. Did FRGC ever get around to opening that new range for IDPA?

So give peacemaker a chance. In a year or two, it is going to be a darn nice facility.


PS, the email re the caliber limitations I received read:
"Change Two - PNTC cannot support the use of 50 Cal, 408, and or 416 Cal sniper type rifles. The reason for this is that these rifles are just to damaging to our target systems and overall infrastructure. "

Cant speak to this - I dont shoot 50, 408, or 416 -

widefat wrote: Did FRGC ever get around to opening that new range for IDPA?

Nope. Don't think they will either. The IDPA pistol shooters among FRGC's members are just too few to have much clout.

Chasbo00 wrote:

widefat wrote: Did FRGC ever get around to opening that new range for IDPA?

Nope. Don't think they will either. The IDPA pistol shooters among FRGC's members are just too few to have much clout.

And that's too bad...I shot there for a couple of matches. Then, they instituted a policy where FRGC members received dibs on available slots. The result, very few, if any, slots were available for outsiders.
Why?...well, not enough range space to run a large match. I gave up even trying to register.
So if they existing contingent does not have enough clout, and entry is limited to the existing powerless contingent, then I don't see them ever growing.

If they so wished, FRGC could be an action pistol powerhouse.

er....eh....sorry for the hijack.

No problem on the hijack, it's all good. God don't get me started.... One of the driving forces for me to find another venue to shoot, is the way in which the FR&GC is managed, if that is what you want to call it. The board has it's own agenda, membership has no say in anything.
Especially anyone other than shotgun people. That is unless you're friends with someone who knows someone...hmmm.
It's basically a shotgun dominated club, which includes a majority of the board.

$70K for new skeet throwers, no problem, it's only money. Now spending $70K for rifle shooters. Well....that might cause a heart attack or two! The desention at the club is open and there for all to see. At least for members.
The shotgun croud (Fudd Central) merely "tolerate" other non shotgun shooters. It' total b.s., but nice ranges. The infrastructure is nice, the management bites.
A good friend of mine, action pistol champion and long time member at the FR&GC, Martin Johnson was totally dicked over by FR&GC last year. Unbelievable the way these arrogant idiots treated him . I won't go into specifics on the story now. If he posts here I'll let him tell his story. All I will say is it was a sham, and total disgrace the way they treated this distinguished champion!
Did I mention the thousands of dollars 'OF CLUB MONEY" that was embezzled? Seems a few members obsconded with club money in a quiet embezzlement scheme...for years? A separate bank account that only a few of the thieves had acess to?
Oh yea...long time members. A little dirty laundry here,....bet there are some bright red faces reading this.HMMMM?
Welsh Warrier

I have only ever shoot 100-300 and the non-tactical pistol area, can't say I have any complaints. Granted, I never tried shooting a .50 there, but the RSO's are a great group of guys and they do what they can to make sure everything operates smoothly.

I can understand about the 1,000 though. You do have to drive through the 1000 to get to it other areas. I suppose if the 1,000 is closed, you could still hit the 600 since that is on the other side of the road to the tactical and event area.

I was looking forward to joining Peacemaker and shot there once to try it. I have never seen so many RSOs standing around or had so many people walk up and tell me that I cannot do this or that. It's way over-managed for what it's supposed to be, and if I cannot move an unloaded and lock-open handgun from one end of the shooting bench to the other without some 20-year old kid calling me for a "safety violation" or put my pistol into my holster without a line of people waiting their turn to ask me if it's loaded and remind me that it's a violation of their policy to holster a loaded pistol on their ranges...well screw it. There is safety and there is nit-picking and micro-managing and Peacemaker currently falls into the latter category. I can't pay good money to shoot there knowing that the RSO-to-shooter ration will be almost 1:1 with an emphasis on being right up in my business every time I so much as look at a firearm.