Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Has anybody used a "fingerprint" safe? Did it work reliably for you?

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Good question. I want to know as well.

Biometric safes are great til the internal battery or electricity goes out and you can't get into your safe. Best just to stay with the good ol' combo safe in my opinion.

Some biometrics safes too don't have a very accurate reader so if your finger is oily or the screen is smudged it won't read properly. I personally would opt for an electronic numerical keypad before I ever did biometrics anything.

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What problem do all these electronic locks solve that simplex locks don't?

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student wrote:Has anybody used a "fingerprint" safe? Did it work reliably for you?

I deal with security on many levels, and the last time I looked. ( about a year ago) The consumer priced units had locks that had FAR too high a false positive/false negative rate to even be close to acceptable to me.

Some of the units were getting close to a 10% falsing rate. Even the good ones were barely above %5 false.

I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Simplex is even better versus the e-keypad locks. The less "high-tech" the better, least in my mind. The only thing you should be worried about with safes is ease of access for you. Can you open it? Can you get to it when needed? Will it screw up when you need it most? Then restriction of access to intruders. Can they get into it easily? Does the safe have extra bolts? Is the safe itself bolted/anchored? How thick is the shell? How well is it put together or welded? Thirdly, fire proofing. Some people would say that's #1 or #2 for them but its about preference really.

Of course, if you have a UPS running to your house, like a Generator or something to keep your safe from being useless due to no power that's a big plus or at least something to take into consideration.

At my last unit we had biometric safes and entry ways. We never had any worries though because we had the backup power to them. The only problem? If they needed maintenance it cost a bunch. So needless to say they did away with them.

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GeneFrenkle wrote:What problem do all these electronic locks solve that simplex locks don't?

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If they work right, the biometric ones require you to swipe one finger across the reader to open it. Basically you set them up to recognize one or more of your fingerprints, or anyone else authorized to open the box. Could save lots of time because you don't have to remember conbinations, look for keys, etc.

SpanishInquisition wrote: If they work right, the biometric ones require you to swipe one finger across the reader to open it. Basically you set them up to recognize one or more of your fingerprints, or anyone else authorized to open the box. Could save lots of time because you don't have to remember conbinations, look for keys, etc.

Those things never seem to work reliably, at least for me - they're on the laptops I'm assigned. I guess I use my hands too much (scrapes, blisters, etc.) so it's easy for my fingerprint to be different than the stored digest. I was just wondering about the criteria that would be used to select an electronic, attribute-based identity (like a fingerprint) with a probability of success over a purely mechanical, minimal maintenance solution when it comes to securing a firearm for defensive purposes.

Is pressing a couple of buttons a practical problem that needs to be solved particularly by swiping a finger one or more times over a reader?

I guess I'm not on board with the idea that everything needs to be electronic particularly when a sure and reliable solution already exists.

I have a Locksafe that works great every time. Just change the battery every 6 month (it's not empty, but you don't want to find out that it's empty when you need it most).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001T2 ... 00_s01_i00
In the middle of the night when you heard a loud noise from front door being kicked and your pulse is 140 and wife is screaming, I doubt I can remember a key combination.
Although my daughter knows well what weapons are, knows well the safety rules and she shoots a .22 well enough, I don't want her to mess with a handgun if she would be able to find the keys for a keys model safe.

GeneFrenkle wrote:

SpanishInquisition wrote:
Those things never seem to work reliably, at least for me - they're on the laptops I'm assigned. I guess I use my hands too much (scrapes, blisters, etc.) so it's easy for my fingerprint to be different than the stored digest. I was just wondering about the criteria that would be used to select an electronic, attribute-based identity (like a fingerprint) with a probability of success over a purely mechanical, minimal maintenance solution when it comes to securing a firearm for defensive purposes.

Is pressing a couple of buttons a practical problem that needs to be solved particularly by swiping a finger one or more times over a reader?

I guess I'm not on board with the idea that everything needs to be electronic particularly when a sure and reliable solution already exists.

My goals are to 1) To secure my handguns from wife's kids who were not raised around me and guns and 2) To allow rapid access in case of emergency

The simplex lots at http://www.policeone.com/police-product ... sy-Access/ only have 2,200 possible key combinations. A teenager home alone for the afternoon could run through them all. Especially with some youtube help.

The Gunvault "key press combination" lock will time out after 20 or 30 failed entries for a couple of minutes to keep somebody from rapidly running through every combination and has a million or more combinations. That would be a satisfactory solution for me. It just seems that if some one is busting through your door, you might forget or mess up a complex key combination under the pressure. If all you had to do was touch your finger to it, that would be great.

Some of the gunvault lockboxes had both an external plugin power supply and a battery backup to use in case of power failure. It also had a tubular lock mechanical override in case both failed. The idea being you put that key in your safe deposit box or such and get it in case of deep failure.

It's been a few years since I looked at them, but I assume the bio ones work in the same way. I'm mainly asking if the fingerprint scanning technology works reliably.

As to the technology, we've got a timeclock at work that uses palmprints. We have had no problems (that we know of, anyway) with false reads, non-reads or fraud since we put it in. I'm sure we get occasional dirty/greasy hands, at least with the maintenance guys, but again, no troubles. The thing makes scores of reads 4 times a day every day. So assuming the technology is the same as the gun vaults, reliability ought to be satisfactory.

This is good stuff.

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student wrote:

GeneFrenkle wrote:

SpanishInquisition wrote:
Those things never seem to work reliably, at least for me - they're on the laptops I'm assigned. I guess I use my hands too much (scrapes, blisters, etc.) so it's easy for my fingerprint to be different than the stored digest. I was just wondering about the criteria that would be used to select an electronic, attribute-based identity (like a fingerprint) with a probability of success over a purely mechanical, minimal maintenance solution when it comes to securing a firearm for defensive purposes.

Is pressing a couple of buttons a practical problem that needs to be solved particularly by swiping a finger one or more times over a reader?

I guess I'm not on board with the idea that everything needs to be electronic particularly when a sure and reliable solution already exists.

My goals are to 1) To secure my handguns from wife's kids who were not raised around me and guns and 2) To allow rapid access in case of emergency

The simplex lots at http://www.policeone.com/police-product ... sy-Access/ only have 2,200 possible key combinations. A teenager home alone for the afternoon could run through them all. Especially with some youtube help.

The Gunvault "key press combination" lock will time out after 20 or 30 failed entries for a couple of minutes to keep somebody from rapidly running through every combination and has a million or more combinations. That would be a satisfactory solution for me. It just seems that if some one is busting through your door, you might forget or mess up a complex key combination under the pressure. If all you had to do was touch your finger to it, that would be great.

Some of the gunvault lockboxes had both an external plugin power supply and a battery backup to use in case of power failure. It also had a tubular lock mechanical override in case both failed. The idea being you put that key in your safe deposit box or such and get it in case of deep failure.

It's been a few years since I looked at them, but I assume the bio ones work in the same way. I'm mainly asking if the fingerprint scanning technology works reliably.

Only 2200? Speaking as a teenager myself you must have one with an incredible amount of patience. Not only than because He must be pretty organized because otherwise you'll forget what you entered and start repeating yourself. Every safe has flaws that can be found with quick searches of the internet. It sounds like you have a problem a safe cannot solve. Biometrics can be fooled as well, more over electrics bypassed and the manual lock used.

Just check out this video. Their is no solution to your problem other than education.

jdonovan wrote:

student wrote:Has anybody used a "fingerprint" safe? Did it work reliably for you?

I deal with security on many levels, and the last time I looked. ( about a year ago) The consumer priced units had locks that had FAR too high a false positive/false negative rate to even be close to acceptable to me.

Some of the units were getting close to a 10% falsing rate. Even the good ones were barely above %5 false.

I'll spend my money elsewhere.

+1

Mine has worked just fine. No issues.

GeneFrenkle wrote:What problem do all these electronic locks solve that simplex locks don't?

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Speed, that's about it. There actually further DOWN the food chain. If you look at safe prices, the electronic/bio ones are considerably cheaper than dial combos.