Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Yeah, why not vote for Obama ...

Obama Youth Army. Even without the pictures of Hitler's Youth in the video, their words (Obama's, Michelle's, Rahm Emmanuel's) are already reminiscent of Nazi Germany, circa WWII:

Can't get past the Youtube content warning to see the vid. Do you think the WH has gotten to Google already?

On one hand I'm absolutely stunned to see this video on the forum put in a negative light. I'm actually disappointed about this campaign promise that didn't go anywhere. Citizens nationwide being trained with firearms. What if during their servivce time they actually get comfortable enough to where they don't rally around gun control legislation and instead start embracing the 2A? Isn't that what we want in this country? More gun ownership and people comfortable with guns? Don't we want to give them the training so they can be more self-reliant when it comes to their protection? Don't we want to give Americans as many ways to serve their country and not just think of it as what the country can do for them? I'm settled down where I'm at with my family and business. I can't just uproot all that and pull a tour or two overseas (but I do salute those that can). What's my option if I still want to contribute to the security of my community? The Virginia Citizen Militia is a joke. Maybe this program could have offered an option. All Israeli males spend time serving in the IDF and last I checked they weren't taking over the world.

On the other hand I'm not surprised to see this video on the forum because it's anti-Obama.

Shotgun, why do you feel the need always to be an apologist for the Obama regime?

The vid, and many others like it, clearly shows that the aim of this program is not to teach young people about service to their country and the Constitution, but service to Obama and his cult of personality. This is the difference between a president and a wannabe-dictator.

And a news update for you: Despite the song that the little girl was taught, Obama is NOT "gonna change the world". In fact, the world is laughing at him and attacking our people knowing that he'll do nothing ore than apologize to them and be more "flexible", while Americans are beginning to fear the police state that he is activating here.

Shotgun, the intention of the video is to bring to light the purpose of such a group would be to suppress any backlash from those with guns, should the President try to take away our 2nd Amendment rights, or any other rights. It wouldn't be everyone getting trained with firearms ... just those who are indoctrinated and/or brainwashed by the Obama Administration. So, the questions you posed wouldn't be applicable because it would still only be the select few who could participate. Just because it's anti-Obama doesn't mean it's not true, either. You probably see the video in a completely different light because of your political views. I don't trust this President and wouldn't put it past him. The Obama Youth idea is meant for an entirely different purpose of suppressing the citizens; not an enemy.

If you want to do more for the security of your community, have you considered volunteering for your local/county fire or police departments? Or volunteering for Search & Rescue? Or volunteering as an EMS? Depending on your age, you could also volunteer in the reserves. But there is the risk of being deployed. Like you, I have a family. I've chosen to take that risk and go back into the reserves. Point is, there are plenty of ways to help.

FYI, the Israeli IDF also consists of women as well. The IDF conscripts all Israelis beginning at age 18. They don't really have any other choice given that they are surrounded by enemies on all sides, even from within (Palestinians), but the IDF is more like our National Guard, minus the conscription, and that it is full-time service. I think the U.S. should adopt mandatory military service, at least in the National Guard because really that's what we should have. I believe it would give our youth perspective and pride in their country ... or an idea of what sacrifice means.

Silentservicevet, I appreciate your patriotism. However you cannot make people feel pride in their country and no amount of conscription will change that. I am proud that we have an all volunteer army. I understand why the Isrealis have conscription, but they are a small and somewhat uniform country. Their soldiers are mostly stationed in their country and fight for their own homes and families. After all it is their homeland that is under constant attack.

If our homeland was under constant attack I have no doubt that we would have no shortage of volunteers to guard the homeland. However, since our military operates mostly off our shores I think it is better to have an all volunteer army. We don't seem to have a shortage of willing young people. Those who do not want to or are unable to serve should not be pressed into service.

Just because I don't rail against him for every little thing does not make me an apologist. If you close your eyes and just listen to the audio you get one message about what they want to do. If you mute your speakers and just watch the images in the video you get a completely different idea of what they want to do in the video. Reminds me of the Nixon / JFK debate whether you watched it on television or listened to it on the radio.

Yeah the kid in the video is annoying. Any dumb parent can teach their kid to say any dumb thing.

And if the idea was that not everyone gets trained, but only a select few (Obama supporters), then yes the whole program would be dumb and I can see the point this video tries to make. But you can't say that's what it would be because like many of his other campaign promises he didn't come through on this one so it's just speculation.

I do like the IDF conscription and think it should be applied to our National Guard even if it's only for a few years because I think it does help instill some level of pride in the citizens. A lot of the of the older folks on this forum have had some level of military experience and I think our younger generation is getting away from that and the results are showing in our society. I'm in my 30s and my parents never really pushed service as an option, probably because they didn't serve. As large as our military is, the sentiment seems to be "let someone else do it". For the first time in awhile we have an election where neither candidate nor running mate have had any military service. And we're going to elect them to control the largest military in the world? Seems a bit backwards to me.

SilentServiceVet thank you for the options on how I can help the community. I'll have to explore them and see which one provides the best fit for me.

The problem with conscription is that it lowered the quality of the armed forces personnel. The military lobbied for all-volunteer because it recognized that quality is more important than quantity. I don't see any changes in our culture that would negate that calculation - if anything, attitudes are even worse among large swaths of our population thanks to the increased left-wing indoctrination in our public schools and the pop culture.

The kid singing a hymn to Obama would be merely annoying, except since 2008 it involved hundreds, perhaps thousands, of kids. And it wasn't done by parents, it was done by Obama-supporting teachers in the public schools on a mandatory basis. It's even being done today, as this news item from yesterday shows: http://www.campusreform.org/blog/?ID=4364

quote/
A college professor has been placed on leave after she allegedly forced her class to sign a pledge to vote for President Obama in the upcoming elections.

Early last week Professor Sharon Sweet at Brevard Community College (BCC) allegedly told students to sign a pledge that reads: “I pledge to vote for President Obama and Democrats up and down the ticket.”

The pledge was printed off of GottaVote.org, a website funded by the Obama campaign.
/quote

One more point: Sure, you could only listen to that video and find not much wrong with Obama's speech outtakes. Mere words are debased currency; deeds are real. Obama can read seemingly innocuous words off a teleprompter, but what has he done that does not deserve condemnation? It even took three tries to get him to green-light the bin Laden raid, which is the only thing he's done right in the past 3.5 years. Even Barney the Dinosaur would have done better.

"Shotgunbast" is as predictable as MSDNC.

mamabearCali wrote:Silentservicevet, I appreciate your patriotism. However you cannot make people feel pride in their country and no amount of conscription will change that. I am proud that we have an all volunteer army. I understand why the Isrealis have conscription, but they are a small and somewhat uniform country. Their soldiers are mostly stationed in their country and fight for their own homes and families. After all it is their homeland that is under constant attack.

If our homeland was under constant attack I have no doubt that we would have no shortage of volunteers to guard the homeland. However, since our military operates mostly off our shores I think it is better to have an all volunteer army. We don't seem to have a shortage of willing young people. Those who do not want to or are unable to serve should not be pressed into service.

Mamabear, for much of our nation's history conscription was the norm. Recent generations are probably unaware of this fact. Let's take away the "pride" argument -- rather than instilling pride, perhaps it could also serve to simply share the burden. Yes, we currently have enough volunteers (for a shrinking military), but if we were to face another major war, we would not have enough sailors, soldiers, airmen, and marines. The draft would have to be re-implemented. If our homeland were threatened, I'd rather have a larger reserve force available to protect it and conscription would allow for that.

Several other countries do conscription without fear of pending invasion. Sweden, for example, is one. I read an article awhile back about Henrik Zetterberg, star hockey player for the Detroit Red Wings ... and a Swede. Before being allowed to play professional hockey, he did his mandatory 9-month tour in their Army. He didn't complain either.

I would beg to differ about the security of our homeland. It is under constant attack. Much of which does not make the news at all. That's all I can say about that.

In the end, we can just agree to disagree. I'm a volunteer for service, so it shouldn't be surprising that I think everyone should serve. I have numerous reasons why. But ultimately the only thing that would change our nation's policy on conscription now is another major war, so this is all conjecture.

In Sweden they don't have teachers telling kids, or TV shows portraying, that Sweden is an unjust, racist, evil country that needs to be more like other countries that are morally superior to it. Nor do they bombard kids with the message that being disaffected, uninvolved, self-absorbed, cynical and sarcastic makes them "cool". I'm sure that has much to do with the hockey star's attitude.

And it used to be that they didn't do that here either.

SilentServiceVet wrote:Let's take away the "pride" argument -- rather than instilling pride, perhaps it could also serve to simply share the burden. Yes, we currently have enough volunteers (for a shrinking military), but if we were to face another major war, we would not have enough sailors, soldiers, airmen, and marines.

I like the bit about sharing the burden. Makes sense to me. Want to live in the greatest country in the world? No problem. When can we schedule your enlistment service to help defend it and make sure it stays the greatest country in the world?

I agree that we wouldn't have enough people in the military if we did go to war again. I think a lot of people saw how long Iraq and Afghanistan dragged on and said "I'm not volunteering for that". Whoever was left in the service got stuck on multiple tours which is leading to the amount of PTSD and suicide rates that I don't think we've ever seen before in our military.

Thanks FiremanBob for linking to the teacher story. That kind of garbage has no place in our education system and I'm glad it was dealt with.

Much like the mythical FEMA camps themselves, I amnot surprised this nonsense from www.campfema.com has no bearing in reality either.

It takes more than a Hitler voice-over (which I saw coming a mile away) to make something menacing.

Needed more fluoride MK-ULTRA mind control, black helicopters and a few obligatory lines about HAARP.

And Sweden last faced a serious threat.... when? They sent their 9 month conscripts around the world to serious fighting... when? Look my kids lives are in the hands of the military more often than I know, I expect. You alluded to that. Do I want a person who is forced to be there, unhappy, unmotivated to do anything but survive, who has been told through his whole life that we are the evil ones (fireman bobs point) standing behind that post. No thanks. I don't think that would be effective. I think it would be better to have an empty post and to know that it is empty than to have a post that is stamped filled but in reality is deplorably staffed.

I am ok with my boys serving if that is what they want to do. I am not anti-military at all. I am pro-effective military. My husband serves in the air force auxiliary, (civil air patrol, helps on domestic rescue/training missions). I have studied history too....conscripts taken far from from home very rarely do well they are often a liability to themselves and their country. Conscripts working close to home do ok. Volunteers do the best. I don't think burden sharing is a good use for our military. I think protecting our homeland is the use for the military.

I should have been more clear..the conscript bit is a side show on this thread.

On the boys in the fatigues....if it is true it is slightly disturbing. If it is true it is another reason I keep my children away from those who would influence them to act in such a strange manner. There are many reasons I homeschool my kids. One of those reasons is to keep them away from people who would brainwash them until they are older have a solid base and able to discern good from evil. What I will teach my children as they grow past learning the name of our country, the flag, and the national anthem is this. Our country is both good and bad. As a nation we have done great things and terrible things. However when I take a broad view of all history that I have studied, our country has behaved better than most and has been certainly the most generous and kindhearted one that humanity has seen in a very long time. I cannot think of any other nation at any other time that has send out so much humanitarian aid. Have we been able to change human nature, no, but as a whole each generation has tried to behave decently in a world that is often indecent.