Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

This is the third such story I've seen in the past few months about people shooting themselves or someone else this way. One was a Navy Seal, who died although in the link below he was still on life support.

Dixon died shortly after 7 p.m. Thursday when he accidentally shot himself in the head with his .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol, according to local reports. Dixon was showing his gun to two friends at an apartment in Stamford at the time of the incident. He had removed the magazine from the pistol and, thinking it was empty, tried to show the gun was safe by pointing it toward his head and pulling the trigger, the newspaper reported. One round was hidden in the gun's chamber.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/15/fo ... latestnews

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-573 ... -unloaded/

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/r ... -at-church

I guess this was drilled into me in boot camp. When performing inspection arms,(a movement used to assure the weapon is safe prior to giving it to an inspector) The main movement is physically looking into the chamber to ensure it is clear.

I'm not sure how you can show a gun is safe because they're always loaded. Even when they're unloaded they're loaded. I've only been around firearms a short time and even I know not to go pointing a gun at something I don't plan on killing.

It's sad to see stories like this, but it's hard to show any sympathy due to the stupidity of the action.

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Note the first story...

I guess everyone who handles a firearm can learn from stories like these. Safety cannot be stressed enough . I shoot with a group of 7 boys and 4 girls , ages 12-14 every month. We start every shoot with a 30 minute safety talk even though we have been shooting together for 4 years. I know that Scott , Matt or myself could not ever get over an accident.

That my friends is what we call Natural Selection. There's no need to be ignorant of safety with an obvious deadly weapon. One less fool I have to worry about on the road, streets, and elsewhere. May be cruel but I take no pity in such acts. Now if he was killed because a friend did that to him I would then feel bad.

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Like most on here, I have it drilled into me. "THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED! THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED!"

Unless I completely stripped it down to the base parts, and put it back together dry without a loaded/unloaded mag ANYWHERE in the room?

THE GUN...IS ALWAYS...LOADED!

First thing my dad taught me, always ALWAYS treat the gun as if it were loaded. That and always clear the gun!

I never have one in the chamber unless it needs to be there...that is why I will never accidently shoot myself with an "unloaded gun". This happened in Fredericksburg as well about 8 months ago...not in the head but in the leg, femoral artery. A lot of people ask me why I bother carrying a firearm if it ain't immediately ready to use...this story is why.

WFarm wrote:This is the third such story I've seen in the past few months about people shooting themselves or someone else this way. One was a Navy Seal, who died although in the link below he was still on life support.

Dixon died shortly after 7 p.m. Thursday when he accidentally shot himself in the head with his .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol, according to local reports. Dixon was showing his gun to two friends at an apartment in Stamford at the time of the incident. He had removed the magazine from the pistol and, thinking it was empty, tried to show the gun was safe by pointing it toward his head and pulling the trigger, the newspaper reported. One round was hidden in the gun's chamber.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/15/fo ... latestnews

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-573 ... -unloaded/

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/r ... -at-church

Very unfortunate, God bless him and thanks to his family for his service to our Country. That being said, The head is not a safe direction to point the gun and pull the trigger. Maybe basic firearms safety 101 isn't something they train on in the Navy.

Any time I hand a weapon of any form or caliber to ANYONE, it is done with the magazine out and the action open.

Respectfully, if you do it any other way, you're doing it wrong.

I was at Colonial Shooting and had to go thru their little safety video and at the end they give you a informal quiz so I just started to rattle off Jeff Coppers 4 rules(the only 4 rules you ever need) and of course started with "all guns are always loaded" and the guy thought that I was saying that you should always keep all the guns loaded which of course conflicts with the range rules. So I clarified "Treat all guns as if they are loaded" and tried to explain my original wording but I don't think he got it.

I had to hurt a young man's feelings the other day when I went shooting with him. He had a Remington 20 gauge over and under shotgun (yes, it was a Remington - - I didn't know they even made O/Us) he'd bought at Dick's or somewhere like that. He's new to shooting, but he owns his own heavy hauling business and is used to being the boss. While his shotgun was broken down, he rested it on his toe while rummaging around in his pocket for more shells. I called him down on it.

He replied "#@$% it, old man, it's not loaded!"

I replied to him, ""#@$%, boy, they're ALWAYS loaded!" He looked confused for a second or two, and then he "got it".

"Yeah," he said, "I guess I see what you mean." So, mission accomplished; - maybe - if he doesn't forget.

Then when I looked at his new shotgun, I had to tell him to put it away until he got it fixed because the stock was cracked from the breach down into the comb. He wanted to keep shooting it because the crack was tight. I told him I couldn't stop him, but I wasn't going to throw any of my targets for him with my thrower or allow anybody else to do it, because I didn't want him to splatter blood all over them. So I hurt his feeeling all over again. I reckon we are all obligated to look after greenhorns.

Thirty plus years ago, I shot a lot of tournament skeet. In 12 gauge especially, gas operated, single barrel shotguns such as the Remington 1100 were very popular. The 1100s were very reliable, heavy, easy to swing, and the gas operating system reduced felt recoil significantly. Folks shooting over and under shotguns rested them on their shoulder while broken open. Many shooting a single barrel shotgun rested them on the toe of their shoe. If fact, there was an accessory called a toe rest that was popular. It's still available today:

http://www.opticsplanet.com/bob-allen-s ... -rest.html

It's been a long time since I shot Skeet - wonder what the NSSA and shotgun ranges position are today regarding this practice - anyone know?

I don't know what the NSSA says about it, but ole uncle Dormin says it's a damned bad habit to form.

dorminWS wrote:I don't know what the NSSA says about it, but ole uncle Dormin says it's a damned bad habit to form.

Apparently, it's still in vogue among clay shooters - even in safety videos:

dorminWS wrote:
I don't know what the NSSA says about it, but ole uncle Dormin says it's a damned bad habit to form.

I'm inclined to agree. I don't find the direction of my toe to be a very safe direction.

WFarm wrote:This is the third such story I've seen in the past few months about people shooting themselves or someone else this way. One was a Navy Seal, who died although in the link below he was still on life support.

Dixon died shortly after 7 p.m. Thursday when he accidentally shot himself in the head with his .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol, according to local reports. Dixon was showing his gun to two friends at an apartment in Stamford at the time of the incident. He had removed the magazine from the pistol and, thinking it was empty, tried to show the gun was safe by pointing it toward his head and pulling the trigger, the newspaper reported. One round was hidden in the gun's chamber.

No such thing as a round "hiding" in a gun's chamber. That must've been the reporter's wording for it. For me, a gun is always loaded. When I clear a weapon, I'll remove the magazine, check the chamber, cycle the slide several times, and if there's no decocker I'll still point the gun away from me to bring the hammer down if I need to.

At the Fredericksburg gun show on Saturday, I saw plenty of people pointing pistols and rifles towards others. That always makes me move or duck. I realize some people want to see how a gun feels, but point it at the ground or away from other people. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but it's how I was taught.

In regards to the toe thing: The gun when resting on the toe it broken down correct? So it is in a no fireable state. Would have a problem with someone pointing a barrel removed from a pistol at you? No of course not you know that there is no set of circumstances that would allow it to fire. Same applies to a shotgun in its broken open state. It's just a barrel separate from it's firing components, unfireable.

Jakeiscrazy wrote:In regards to the toe thing: The gun when resting on the toe it broken down correct? So it is in a no fireable state. Would have a problem with someone pointing a barrel removed from a pistol at you? No of course not you know that there is no set of circumstances that would allow it to fire. Same applies to a shotgun in its broken open state. It's just a barrel separate from it's firing components, unfireable.

OK for pumps and semi-auto shotguns too if the action is open?

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAy ... elessness/