Lake Monticello Preemption Violation

[tommy610]

We're planning on moving from PA to VA soon... to the Lake Monticello community. I just noticed the below. I'm assuming, given VA law regarding preemption, I can ignore this, regarding carry (not discharge). Right?

See paragraph III.A.1

http://www.lmoavoice.org/hoa/assn22964/ ... M14_02.pdf

Thanks.

[OakRidgeStars]

If this is private property then preemption doesn't apply. Are you moving to a home on the golf course?

[tommy610]

It would be buying a home in the gated community.

[OakRidgeStars]

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-308

B. This section shall not apply to any person while in his own place of abode or the curtilage thereof.

---

Not sure how they can prevent you from having a loaded firearm at home. As far as traveling to and from home, that would require a legal opinion from a lawyer knowledgeable in VA law pertaining to firearms.

http://www.hkshooter.net/lawyers/

[FiremanBob]

I am renting at the Lake. I do not recommend buying a home in this community. The homeowners association is like a community soup Nazi. The place is crawling with New Yorkers, because when they originally built it the developers advertised in the NYC newspapers. Lots of libtards here, especially retired public sector employees.

It was the liberal yankees at the Lake who got the county to build an $80 million high school that has destroyed the county's finances to the point that they almost couldn't open the school for lack of funds. Expect the tax rate to increase to keep the place open.

It will take a lawyer to opine on the preemption issue. I'm very interested in knowing the answer.

[dorminWS]

It's been a long time since I discussed such matters as these, but I think it is probably the case that the property was originally conveyed by the developer subject to restrictive covenants that basically authorize the Owner's Association to have all those pissy little rules and restrictions. It is more in the nature of contracting away your rights to carry a gun, build a fire in your yard, etc. for the privilege of being allowed to own a house at Lake Monticello. More accurately, you didn’t really receive ALL of the bundle of rights that comprise free-and-clear ownership of the land, because a prior owner reserved those rights that involve your rights to do what they restrict you from doing in the covenants – with those reserved rights granted to the “Owner’s Associations”. Those restrictive covenants typically "run with the land", which means they bind all subsequent landowners. It is my opinion that such "Owners' Associations" typically attract the active participation (to the extent that volunteers are accepted) of "rule Nazis" (close kin to “range Nazis”) who just live to stick their noses in other folks' business and be as big a pain in the ass to their neighbors as they can. The Bill of Rights protects you from government action; not the actions of private parties. And besides, if you buy the land, you’ve agreed to let these private parties interfere with your freedom. So do not assume you can ignore those rules, because unless a court rules that they are so repugnant to public policy as to be void, you can expect to pretty much be bound by them. There ain't no way in hell I'd buy property subject to covenants like that, but to each his own - one man's intolerable intrusion is another man's protection of property values, I guess. If you don't have a lawyer, GET ONE! If you do have a lawyer, get him to explain these restrictive covenants to you in detail.

EDIT: I see FiremanBob chimed in while I was typing my post, and his experiance with the LMOA bears out my more general statement.

[FiremanBob]

Couldn't edit my previous post, so I'll add this. Joe Thomas, the outstanding conservative radio talk host on WCHV, aptly describes Long Island, NY as "Lake-Monticello-by-the-Sea".

[tommy610]

Thanks for the info, guys. It looks like the Community is incorporated. I presume that means they own everything that is not owned by private residents. They hire people to remove snow from the streets, for example. That sounds like Lake Monticello's private property to me. Not sure where to go from here. This is a major bummer.

[FiremanBob]

Zillow.com and realtor.com are your friends. Just don't start a bidding war on the house I want to buy.

[Riposite]

Couldn't edit my previous post, so I'll add this. Joe Thomas, the outstanding conservative radio talk host on WCHV, aptly describes Long Island, NY as "Lake-Monticello-by-the-Sea".

hey I just want to go on record that not all ex-pats from Long Island NY are anti gun liberal nuts


though I tell you I moved here to get away from my fellow yankees and they are ruining it by coming here

[snatale42]

Couldn't edit my previous post, so I'll add this. Joe Thomas, the outstanding conservative radio talk host on WCHV, aptly describes Long Island, NY as "Lake-Monticello-by-the-Sea".

hey I just want to go on record that not all ex-pats from Long Island NY are anti gun liberal nuts

I'm seconding this, I'm from MA and we get the same crap from people who have never been to the state and know nothing about it. MOST of us love our guns. Just because Boston sucks all of us get labeled as anti-gun libtards, which is WAY OFF! I've also got a ton of Dem friends who have way more guns than me! There is no shortage of gun owning/carrying people in the North. In fact when I moved to Richmond I was completely amazed at how many MORE ranges and gun shops we had in my area in MA (Just outside Boston) than there was here! It was the complete opposite of what I expected. Yes you need a permit to own there unlike here (yes, that's BS). But aside from that it's really no different. My CHP took 43 days to come in from Henrico, My last permit in MA took 10! Point Being....people shouldn't ASSUME so much!

[TFred]

HOAs are definitely near the top of the list of where you need to apply Caveat emptor. Depending on the views of the potential buyers, such overbearing rules either increase or decrease property values, and as noted, you can pretty much guess what your neighbors are going to be like in such a place. Either those who thrive in the "comfort" of oppression and having others think for them, or those who are not thoughtful enough to read the HOA covenants before signing the contract.

In what I would describe as "isn't, but oughtta be..." HOAs are authorized and empowered entirely by the Commonwealth of Virginia. Although they do not currently fall under the restrictions of 15.2-915 (the "preemption" law), I don't think it would be that much of a stretch to add them.

However... generally speaking, the same sorts of people who strongly favor preemption and gun rights in general also strongly favor property rights, and if the bozos who live somewhere want to band together into one gigantic, mythical "gun free" zone... why should the state stop them?

TFred

[Diomed]

I would think having a covenant that called for surrender of an enumerated right would run afoul of the reasoning that killed exclusionary covenants, but then the law is not known for being consistent or logical.

[Reverenddel]

I would have to chime in that I have met MANY "Transplants" who have adapted to the culture, and accepted it as nature, and love firearms.

Especially the NYPD... Those people just ADORE walking into a gunshop, and walking out with AR's, and AK's as CIVYS! HAHAHAH

As to a "HOA" (Pronounced "ho-uh", like the... you know), basically fits it's namesake, you get screwed when you pay them.

[Riposite]

well the real problem with HOAs is it is all politics just on a micro scale
all people who want power based on having no merit and get their jollies telling other people how to live
Previous to my current job I worked for a real estate developer and we often had to deal with the HOAs in the initial phases of the sub division (until there were enough residents to turn it fully over to them) and seriously the sort of people who want to run a HOA are the same sort who would of gone far in the Nazi party

[AlanM]

I mentioned this thread to the C'ville LEO that I see/talk to daily and she said that a large number of police officers and sheriff's deputies live in/at Lake Monticello. She also opined that she didn't think they were not gun friendly.
We live just off of 53 between the lake and I64 so I experience a lot of the lake traffic while I'm on 53 near T.J.'s Monticello.

Please excuse my ignorance, but how much of the area around the lake is gated community?
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=lake+mont ... s&t=m&z=13

[tommy610]

Thanks for all the insight here. Much appreciated.

So now we're back to ground zero with our home search. We know we'd like to be in Virginia. LM was at the top mostly because of the public water/sewer. It looks like we'll have to give that up, and entertain septic/well now. We definitely want to be a near a lake. Do you guys have any other ideas? Smith Mountain Lake is a little too far South for us... long trip back to the relatives. We're looking at Anna and Louisa.

Any thoughts?

[FiremanBob]

Almost everything bounded in the triangle between 53, 618, and 600. There are some private homes along the north side of 53 SE of the shopping center, a Villages townhouse development, and some church properties that aren't in the lake.

My take on the HOA rules is "concealed is concealed".

[allingeneral]

Thanks for all the insight here. Much appreciated.

So now we're back to ground zero with our home search. We know we'd like to be in Virginia. LM was at the top mostly because of the public water/sewer. It looks like we'll have to give that up, and entertain septic/well now. We definitely want to be a near a lake. Do you guys have any other ideas? Smith Mountain Lake is a little too far South for us... long trip back to the relatives. We're looking at Anna and Louisa.

Any thoughts?

If you get a place with a well, make sure it's Artesian (i.e. drilled several hundred feet deep). I have a shallow well on my property (~45 feet deep) and it has pissed me off more than once running out of water during the heat of summer and I'm afraid to drink it, so I have drinking water delivered to the house.

[Reverenddel]

Lake Anna/Louisa is a good blend of "Weekenders" from NoVa, and locals.

We camp up there, and it's rather a nice area... Good fishing by the way!