Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

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Dear Friend,

It's been just over a year since we kicked off this campaign. This journey has afforded my family and me the opportunity to visit voters all across the country.

And no matter where I am on the map, I'm always struck by how many supporters bring their own American flags to our events. To each of them -- and each of us -- that flag represents the principles that made America the hope of the Earth.

This campaign is about restoring those principles and the promise of our great country. Watch this video that captures our journey in our fight for a better America.



Today, as we celebrate Flag Day, we are reminded that this is truly a great land of great people who have made great sacrifices. We are blessed to fly our Stars and Stripes.

What does the American flag mean to you? Share your thoughts here.

Happy Flag Day.

Mitt Romney

Paid for by Romney for President, Inc.
http://www.MittRomney.com

Neat video. It's always nice to see something out of the Romney campaign that shows they DO know how to spell America.

I'm sorry, I had to.

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Mitt Romney said:

This campaign is about restoring those principles and the promise of our great country. Watch this video that captures our journey in our fight for a better America.

Then grow a pair and start standing up to Curious George and his crew of space wasters,,We are tired of wishy washy,limp dick politicians that let every little group out there walk all over them...We are the ones you will work for! Not the other way around.

I'm (relatively) young, was there actually a time the flag wasn't associated with kitschy crap like this?



I associate the flag with car dealers and mattress stores based on where I've seen it most often. Is that a generational thing?

Edit: this actually isn't sarcasm, I watched the video and was sincerely puzzled.

Sadly we;ve allowed the flag to be used for far more than just our countries banner.Yet .there are still millions who know and practice the proper use and display of it .Was a time when you would never see the garbage you do today,,,,,PC crap has also given way to much of the disrespect that is seen today. Stopping the pledge of allegiance,arguing the burning of a flag in stupidity by the likes of the ACLU ...Douche bags stepping on it at their little butthole gatherings to promote free loading on the government.. Sad indeed!! IMHO we need to start teaching our kids the proper respect and meaning of the flag that represents this proud nation of ours..

Gee, and I thought it was just capitalism that created a market for all this junk covered in the stars and stripes.

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VBshooter wrote:Sadly we;ve allowed the flag to be used for far more than just our countries banner.Yet .there are still millions who know and practice the proper use and display of it .Was a time when you would never see the garbage you do today,,,,,PC crap has also given way to much of the disrespect that is seen today. Stopping the pledge of allegiance,arguing the burning of a flag in stupidity by the likes of the ACLU ...Douche bags stepping on it at their little butthole gatherings to promote free loading on the government.. Sad indeed!! IMHO we need to start teaching our kids the proper respect and meaning of the flag that represents this proud nation of ours..

Can you date all this? I was born in 1982 and never knew of the pledge of allegiance until I was in my late teens when I saw it in a documentary on the education system (apparently until the 30's the pledge was held with arm outstretched ala the Hitler salute), nor am I sure precisely when it became plastered over every piece of plastic junk imported from China.

I was born in 1953, take my word for it!

Kreutz wrote:
Can you date all this? I was born in 1982 and never knew of the pledge of allegiance until I was in my late teens when I saw it in a documentary on the education system (apparently until the 30's the pledge was held with arm outstretched ala the Hitler salute), nor am I sure precisely when it became plastered over every piece of plastic junk imported from China.

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Are you kidding? You never knew of the Pledge of Allegiance until your late teens? That's amazing! I recited it and the Lord's Prayer every morning from 1st grade. If I'd failed to recite with the rest of the kids, (at least until I became a smart-assed teenager) I wouldn't have been a bit surprised if the Lord had stricken me dead with a thunderbolt. I guess New York is a more foreign country than I realized.

dorminWS wrote: Are you kidding? You never knew of the Pledge of Allegiance until your late teens? That's amazing! I recited it and the Lord's Prayer every morning from 1st grade. If I'd failed to recite with the rest of the kids, (at least until I became a smart-assed teenager) I wouldn't have been a bit surprised if the Lord had stricken me dead with a thunderbolt. I guess New York is a more foreign country than I realized.

I spent my elementary school years in NY too and recited the pledge. Moved to Virginia for middle and high school and no pledge.

ShotgunBlast wrote:

dorminWS wrote: Are you kidding? You never knew of the Pledge of Allegiance until your late teens? That's amazing! I recited it and the Lord's Prayer every morning from 1st grade. If I'd failed to recite with the rest of the kids, (at least until I became a smart-assed teenager) I wouldn't have been a bit surprised if the Lord had stricken me dead with a thunderbolt. I guess New York is a more foreign country than I realized.

I spent my elementary school years in NY too and recited the pledge. Moved to Virginia for middle and high school and no pledge.

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We might be comparing apples to oranges here, chronologically speaking. I was born in 1952. In 1978, I remember a Scoutmaster in Charlottesville who was also an English prof at UVa telling his troop (which included my oldest son) that he didn't want them to recite the Pledge because he thought it inappropriate. I hit the ceiling on him, but more than half the other parents supported his position. Things changed a lot in some communities in the 70s and 80s.

dorminWS wrote:

ShotgunBlast wrote:

dorminWS wrote: Are you kidding? You never knew of the Pledge of Allegiance until your late teens? That's amazing! I recited it and the Lord's Prayer every morning from 1st grade. If I'd failed to recite with the rest of the kids, (at least until I became a smart-assed teenager) I wouldn't have been a bit surprised if the Lord had stricken me dead with a thunderbolt. I guess New York is a more foreign country than I realized.

I spent my elementary school years in NY too and recited the pledge. Moved to Virginia for middle and high school and no pledge.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We might be comparing apples to oranges here, chronologically speaking. I was born in 1952. In 1978, I remember a Scoutmaster in Charlottesville who was also an English prof at UVa telling his troop (which included my oldest son) that he didn't want them to recite the Pledge because he thought it inappropriate. I hit the ceiling on him, but more than half the other parents supported his position. Things changed a lot in some communities in the 70s and 80s.

well I am from NY as well, and the recited the pledge up until i graduated from high school in 1992 -though by the time we got to highschool we just didnt do it , just ignored it over the PA
and at that point there was no real authority pushing us to do it (most of my high school teachers were always pushing the kids to walk out in support of their contract negotiations)
it's not just a time thing, or an age thing; but also in NY a lot of times elementary schools were very local but by the time you got to high school it was a much larger crowd and the schools were more often focused on real disciplinary issues
For example my freshman or sophmore year in high school my high school was #1 in teen pregnancies in the US; and that was not as a percent (we were that too) but as an actual real #; so pushing the pledge was probably not their biggest concern

Kreutz wrote:

VBshooter wrote:Sadly we;ve allowed the flag to be used for far more than just our countries banner.Yet .there are still millions who know and practice the proper use and display of it .Was a time when you would never see the garbage you do today,,,,,PC crap has also given way to much of the disrespect that is seen today. Stopping the pledge of allegiance,arguing the burning of a flag in stupidity by the likes of the ACLU ...Douche bags stepping on it at their little butthole gatherings to promote free loading on the government.. Sad indeed!! IMHO we need to start teaching our kids the proper respect and meaning of the flag that represents this proud nation of ours..

Can you date all this? I was born in 1982 and never knew of the pledge of allegiance until I was in my late teens when I saw it in a documentary on the education system (apparently until the 30's the pledge was held with arm outstretched ala the Hitler salute), nor am I sure precisely when it became plastered over every piece of plastic junk imported from China.

This is disgusting and ignorant.

Being unashamed enough to admit this type of ignorance says a lot about the fact that Mr. Kreutz still doesn't get it.

Equating it with Hitler says even more.

ShotgunBlast wrote:

dorminWS wrote: Are you kidding? You never knew of the Pledge of Allegiance until your late teens? That's amazing! I recited it and the Lord's Prayer every morning from 1st grade. If I'd failed to recite with the rest of the kids, (at least until I became a smart-assed teenager) I wouldn't have been a bit surprised if the Lord had stricken me dead with a thunderbolt. I guess New York is a more foreign country than I realized.

I spent my elementary school years in NY too and recited the pledge. Moved to Virginia for middle and high school and no pledge.

I remember my school years rather well, it was never done as far as I can recall. Our village school district was tiny (only about 1500 students total I think) and the administration in all of the school levels was constantly changing, so maybe that had something to do with it? We had three different principals in 11th and 12th grade...high turnover!

One was fired after his son used the school as a primo place to deal weed, another grabbed a secretary's ass and was canned, and the third was an epileptic lady who looked like a Roswell alien with a wig.

Good times! But no, no pledges to anything elementary through HS. I don't think our rooms even had flags, we were constantly on austerity budget. Maybe they couldn't afford them?

We said it everyday in our school, and I was born 1980. It was part of morning announcements. Not that I see a great deal of practical purpose in it, but it is a nice thought.

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ratherfish wrote:Equating it with Hitler says even more.

While the above description of the Bellamy salute is somewhat crude, it is accurate.

The history of the Pledge is sad and revealing. Personally, I no longer partake of it - it is fundamentally un-American.

If you were raised well your parents instilled respect for our flag and our country.

Had I showed disrespect for either my father would have seen that it didn't occur twice.

any gesture can be prostituted and twisted. even the OP.
"Today, as we celebrate Flag Day, we are reminded that this is truly a great land of great people who have made great sacrifices. We are blessed to fly our Stars and Stripes."

If you don't consider the flag a blessing and resent standing under it and paying respect, You simply weren't raised right.

ratherfish wrote:If you were raised well your parents instilled respect for our flag and our country.

Had I showed disrespect for either my father would have seen that it didn't occur twice.

any gesture can be prostituted and twisted. even the OP.
"Today, as we celebrate Flag Day, we are reminded that this is truly a great land of great people who have made great sacrifices. We are blessed to fly our Stars and Stripes."

If you don't consider the flag a blessing and resent standing under it and paying respect, You simply weren't raised right.

Setting aside the lightly veiled ad hominems, this position is really quite horrifying if one believes in the values that founded the United States. Unquestioning obedience and loyalty to the state are not classical American values, considering how and why this nation came to be. One was loyal to one's family, to one's community, to one's State, but the United States was more of an afterthought - it was a collection of politicians and bureaucrats, not something real. Those alien values of obedience and submission are, however, very Prussian; which is fitting, since the Progressives rewrote our history to make us more like them, and then put everyone in schools that taught the lies. The Pledge, written by a socialist, recited to an inanimate object while part of a peer group, is an important part of keeping that form of control operating.

The "Spirit of '76" is dead, the ideals of our Founders forgotten, and this thread is just a slice of why.

Diomed wrote:

ratherfish wrote:If you were raised well your parents instilled respect for our flag and our country.

Had I showed disrespect for either my father would have seen that it didn't occur twice.

any gesture can be prostituted and twisted. even the OP.
"Today, as we celebrate Flag Day, we are reminded that this is truly a great land of great people who have made great sacrifices. We are blessed to fly our Stars and Stripes."

If you don't consider the flag a blessing and resent standing under it and paying respect, You simply weren't raised right.

Setting aside the lightly veiled ad hominems, this position is really quite horrifying if one believes in the values that founded the United States. Unquestioning obedience and loyalty to the state are not classical American values, considering how and why this nation came to be. One was loyal to one's family, to one's community, to one's State, but the United States was more of an afterthought - it was a collection of politicians and bureaucrats, not something real. Those alien values of obedience and submission are, however, very Prussian; which is fitting, since the Progressives rewrote our history to make us more like them, and then put everyone in schools that taught the lies. The Pledge, written by a socialist, recited to an inanimate object while part of a peer group, is an important part of keeping that form of control operating.

The "Spirit of '76" is dead, the ideals of our Founders forgotten, and this thread is just a slice of why.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Those are some very interesting points and perspective; and not altogether unpersuasive. There is certainly merit in what you say. But I believe I can be patriotic without being a dupe of the politicians and bureaucrats. My loyalty, as I see it, is to my country (but not to the exclusion of my family and state - community is a little too close for the kind of loyalty one affords a state and too distant for the kind of loyalty one pays to family; therefore I have very little community loyalty - they can mind their business and I'll mind mine) and NOT NECESSARILY to the current bureaucracy.

And let us at least hope that the "Spirit of '76" is only profoundly somnambulant.

dorminWS wrote:Those are some very interesting points and perspective; and not altogether unpersuasive. There is certainly merit in what you say. But I believe I can be patriotic without being a dupe of the politicians and bureaucrats. My loyalty, as I see it, is to my country (but not to the exclusion of my family and state - community is a little too close for the kind of loyalty one affords a state and too distant for the kind of loyalty one pays to family; therefore I have very little community loyalty - they can mind their business and I'll mind mine) and NOT NECESSARILY to the current bureaucracy.

And let us at least hope that the "Spirit of '76" is only profoundly somnambulant.