Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

http://www.americanrifleman.org/article ... e-defense/

This article was kind of a vanilla read for the experienced shooter. But it was one of the comments that I wanted to correct that got me to post. One commenter, Gary, discusses with great authority the reason that the FBI dumped the 9 mm.

False. To date the 9 mm, via Glock, is an option for new agent trainees graduating at Quantico. I would venture to say that outside of the DoD, the FBI is the largest single purchaser of 9 mm ammunition CONUS.

derek141 wrote: False. To date the 9 mm, via Glock, is an option for new agent trainees graduating at Quantico. I would venture to say that outside of the DoD, the FBI is the largest single purchaser of 9 mm ammunition CONUS.

I think you are mistaken here. What do you base this on? The Glock 22 and 23 in .40 S&W caliber have been the FBI issue handguns for well over a decade.

Chasbo00 wrote:

derek141 wrote: False. To date the 9 mm, via Glock, is an option for new agent trainees graduating at Quantico. I would venture to say that outside of the DoD, the FBI is the largest single purchaser of 9 mm ammunition CONUS.

I think you are mistaken here. What do you base this on? The Glock 22 and 23 in .40 S&W caliber have been the FBI issue handguns for well over a decade.

Assuredly, I am not mistaken. That I would put my source/method in public formum would be your error. It is basis in fact, though. Go and make a friend in the Bu FTU. You are correct that the 22 and/or 23 have been Bu issue is true. However, they have neither been the only issue, nor the only authorized personally-owned duty weapons.

derek141 wrote: Assuredly, I am not mistaken. That I would put my source/method in public formum would be your error. It is basis in fact, though. Go and make a friend in the Bu FTU. You are correct that the 22 and/or 23 have been Bu issue is true. However, they have neither been the only issue, nor the only authorized personally-owned duty weapons.

The list of authorized handguns for personal purchase by FBI by agents and authorized for backup or other job use may well still include the Glock 26 in 9mm (at least that use to be the case - this list changes from time to time). In the last few years, I think only Glocks are authorized for FBI duty use. But please tell me how you determined that the FBI is the is the largest single purchaser of 9 mm ammunition CONUS, excluding DoD. Where does this large FBI requirement for 9mm ammo purchasing come from?

Chasbo00 wrote:

derek141 wrote: Assuredly, I am not mistaken. That I would put my source/method in public formum would be your error. It is basis in fact, though. Go and make a friend in the Bu FTU. You are correct that the 22 and/or 23 have been Bu issue is true. However, they have neither been the only issue, nor the only authorized personally-owned duty weapons.

The list of authorized handguns for personal purchase by FBI by agents and authorized for backup or other job use may well still include the Glock 26 in 9mm (at least that use to be the case - this list changes from time to time). In the last few years, I think only Glocks are authorized for FBI duty use. But please tell me how you determined that the FBI is the is the largest single purchaser of 9 mm ammunition CONUS, excluding DoD. Where does this large FBI requirement for 9mm ammo purchasing come from?

The 26 did not even factor into my thoughts when referring to issue/authorized weapons. My notation of the Bu being the largest single CONUS purchaser of 9 mm was prefaced by "I would venture to say". That statement was based on my own observations.

Charles- PM not working out for me at the moment.

I still don't get it. What is your rationale for claiming that the FBI is even a large purchaser of 9mm ammo? My contention is that the 9mms still in use within the FBI are relatively few. Excluding some 9mm sub-machine guns used by the special outfits, where are all these 9mms?

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity ... ode=list&=

apparently Glocks in the .40 S&W is what the FBI solicts for in their bidding. Admtitedly this is one year out of the bidding cycle so they could of switched in 2011- but for several years previous it has been the same award to Glock
(there is a rumor H&K in .40 won the last round but I have not found a reputable source)


there is some anectdotal evidence that the FBI will issue in the academy glocks in 9mm to people who have issues with the recoil on a .40 but when you factor in the fact that there are only 13,000 special agents (that # comes fromt he about us section the FBI website)
and that only a percentage of that would be so challenged, and compare it to some of the larger metropolitan police forces in the US where 9mm is the standard, I think your statement that the FBI is the largest purchaser outside of the DOD is wrong, and so far you've provided no factual basis for it other than a "source". It may be possible the FBI buys tons og 9mm for forensic testing that exceeds amounts for usage but again I'd want some official documentation for that assertion.

The reason we have a .40 S&W today is because of the FBI call for a new caliber after the Miami shootout in the 80s... The 10mm was too much and the S&W model 1076 was too large for agents with smaller hands.. (I just shot my 1076 over the Memorial Day weekend...what a beast...) Then, S&W decided they could shorten the 10mm case into the current .40 S&W cartridge and still produce the ballistics the FBI was calling for (180 grain projectile @ 1000 fps, if I remember).... That sufficed, and that started the trend towards law enforcement in general to switch to the .40 caliber.

Everyone I know that works for the various Federal alphabet soup agencies carries a .40 cal firearm. There are agencies that carry .357 Sig, but I still would like to see something that says the FBI has switched the majority of their arsenal to 9mm....

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Riposite wrote:https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity ... ode=list&=

apparently Glocks in the .40 S&W is what the FBI solicts for in their bidding. Admtitedly this is one year out of the bidding cycle so they could of switched in 2011- but for several years previous it has been the same award to Glock
(there is a rumor H&K in .40 won the last round but I have not found a reputable source)


there is some anectdotal evidence that the FBI will issue in the academy glocks in 9mm to people who have issues with the recoil on a .40 but when you factor in the fact that there are only 13,000 special agents (that # comes fromt he about us section the FBI website)
and that only a percentage of that would be so challenged, and compare it to some of the larger metropolitan police forces in the US where 9mm is the standard, I think your statement that the FBI is the largest purchaser outside of the DOD is wrong, and so far you've provided no factual basis for it other than a "source". It may be possible the FBI buys tons og 9mm for forensic testing that exceeds amounts for usage but again I'd want some official documentation for that assertion.

Again, my statement was caveated. Moreover, largest single purchaser, not comparing to ALL municipalities, or ALL retailers. Metro PDs don't generally allow carte blanche checkout of agency ammo for practice/training on personal time, as does the Bu. But clearly I must be wrong and not founded at all in reality, so disregard. I defer to American Handgunner, Guns & Ammo Handguns, American Cop, etc. These are the definitive ground truth. BTW, HK, not.

for example the NYPD has currently about 36,000 uniformed officers (again available off their public website). While they still havea model of .38 special revolver approved, their main 3 service selections are 9mm hand guns -if we assume 75% of the NYPD carries 9mm that is more than all the special agents the FBI has employed -to the factor of nearly double -I wasn't speaking municipalities as a whole, there are several that employ significantly more officers than the FBI does special agents; and I am not assuming something is true because a magazine reported it, what i am saying is when we look at the verifiable public facts such as the FBI's publicly awarded contract is for Glock 23s it casts some real doubt on unsubstantiated claims with no more backing then i have a "source".

as for HK i stated it was a rumor but that i could not find a reputable source -pops up a lot on internet forums but I could find no contract or bid award for it. And again I referenced that as rumor without reputable source.

I would venture to say that Walmart is the largest single purchaser of 9mm.

rromeo wrote:I would venture to say that Walmart is the largest single purchaser of 9mm.

that's a very good point -didn't even think of retail consumers : )

rromeo wrote:I would venture to say that Walmart is the largest single purchaser of 9mm.

Deparment of Homeland Security,since they don't care who comes across the southern border,what are they going to do with all that ammo?

zerodown1 wrote:Deparment of Homeland Security,since they don't care who comes across the southern border,what are they going to do with all that ammo?

The 9mm ammo is for all the bitter clingers, I mean "liberty lovers"

The bean bag rounds are for the guys that Eric Holder gave AK's to.