Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

By the end of the year it looks like my wife and I will each have our CHP and handgun for concealed carry. I've been looking at a few different types of smaller guns to serve this purpose, but I keep coming back to caliber vs quantity of rounds and with a physically smaller gun this issue gets magnified. Some people like 9mm because you get extra rounds with some stopping power. Some people won't shoot anything less than a 45 because it's a "man stopper".

I hope I wouldn't have to use it other than practicing at the range, but reading some articles gets me thinking more about quantity than size. You get someone amped up and I guess it doesn't matter what size hole they have in them; they'll keep going for you. I guess any gun is better than no gun, but I wanted to get some opinions from those who are carrying smaller sized guns. Thanks for your help.

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You should carry the largest caliber that you can effectively control, and put accurate hits on target.

Find a frame size that fits your hand correctly, and get that gun in the chosen caliber.

You might enjoy reading this linked article. It may also help you with your questions on defensive calibers and ammunition. The article is written by true experts in the field and it's updated fairly often.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defen ... /index.htm

Personally, I'm a 9mm fan. It works OK, maximizes capacity for a given size, and good practice ammo is less expensive.

I wouldn't rule out a caliber in favor of capacity for a semi-automatic. Extra magazines are not expensive and are easily concealed.

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Being a "new guy" here I would like to express my views please. I have CC'd for a number of years and I prefer carrying a .45acp for maximum effect due to the fact that under duress I may only connect once during an encounter. That being said is the fact that at times, according to the wardrobe of the day, it is pretty hard to successfully AND comfortably do that. Having several to choose from, if I had to use a single caliber/size combo for EVERY DAY carry it would be a compact 9mm no doubt.

WRW wrote:I wouldn't rule out a caliber in favor of capacity for a semi-automatic. Extra magazines are not expensive and are easily concealed.

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Great point. I just saw a video yesterday about CC and they also demonstrated a OWB magazine bag that was very thin and very effective.

sed45acp wrote:Being a "new guy" here I would like to express my views please. I have CC'd for a number of years and I prefer carrying a .45acp for maximum effect due to the fact that under duress I may only connect once during an encounter. That being said is the fact that at times, according to the wardrobe of the day, it is pretty hard to successfully AND comfortably do that. Having several to choose from, if I had to use a single caliber/size combo for EVERY DAY carry it would be a compact 9mm no doubt.

No doubt. Even if I can get good enough to put it anywhere I want on a paper target, doesn't mean I'll be nearly as good under duress. I just won't have that type of training. If you like your .45acp so much, why would you recommend a compact 9mm over a compact .45acp?

Replying to ShotgunBlast;
Sorry for the confusing post. What I am meaning is that sometimes wardrobe dictates what firearm can be carried easily, so if I had only one firearm it would be a compact 9 so that it would be convenient to carry no matter the dress.

If I had to pick just 1, not considering clothing/holster/carry location I would go with a sub compact .40. My G27 can be ankle holstered, IWB, OWB, shoulder rig, crotch rig and concealed rather well wearing most clothing. but everyone will have their own preference. I wanted to go with a balance in weight, size, power and capacity

I find that my attire tends to be jeans and either a polo shirt that covers my belt or a fleece shirt in the cooler months that covers my belt. I did want to stick to only having one gun so I could become as proficient as I can with it, carry it in the same spot, etc. I was looking at carrying IWB with an extra magazine or two on the opposite side. I was thinking a Glock 36 or similar models in the various calibers. I'm definitely taking Pro Shooters advice in heading over to the range to see what sizes I can handle effectively.

Thanks for all of the great suggestions.

You might do a search on problems with that particular model before buying.

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My EDC, a Glock 27 (.40S&W) is a nice compromise between stopping power and round capacity.

I can carry 9+1, which is more than I plan on using in most any circumstance. I do, obviously, carry an extra magazine in a cargo pocket when my attire permits.

The more important factor in the equation is you! You need to make a couple choices related to your carry weapon, including the following:
-Can I carry this weapon easily, given my typical attire?
-Can I devote the time, practice, and financial effort to become skilled with this weapon?

Getting yourself a $1,000 custom 1911 in .45, loaded with the latest and greatest defensive ammunition means very little if you A: Have to leave it at home, or B: Can't shoot it worth a damn under stress.

Now to answer your question, I'd have to agree with Proshooter. Find a model and caliber you like. Pick one that you can conceal easily, and will fit in with your lifestyle. Once you have done that, Practice, Practice, Practice. Don't just sit at the range and plink at non-moving paper targets. Take a tactical pistol course. Get your blood pumping, and see how drastically it affects your shooting as you get closer to "Real-World" conditions.

Now the caliber question:
Without getting TOO much into the subject, I believe that you shoot carry and shoot the largest round you are effective with. People have been killed with .22lr, but that doesn't mean that I would trade my .40 for it in a gunfight. However, it comes down to shot placement for the most part. Set your sights on something important, and keep pulling the trigger.

Quantity:
Most self defense encounters occur at relatively close range, and very quickly. That means feet, and seconds. The way I was taught to shoot defensively was simple:

"Practice reloading like your life depends on it, but never let your life depend on getting a reload."

In short, try to become proficient enough with your weapon that you can defend yourself with what you have in the chamber/Magazine. If you're worried about round count still, check into double stack weapons, like the Glock and M&P series, which offer excellent round counts, in service calibers, in a package that is still compact enough to carry easily.

Hope my wall of text is of benefit to you, and don't hesitate to PM me if there's anything else I can answer for you!
-Alex

ShotgunBlast wrote:Some people won't shoot anything less than a 45 because it's a "man stopper".

Must suck to have to suffer though life with a small penis.

If they really cared about power they would be carrying a 10mm. Oh and you can get them in 1911 style frames, so the old 1911 or nothing argument looses too.

Anything you can hit with, is better than anything you reliably miss with.
The modern defense ammo all performs very well regardless of caliber.
A spare mag just about negates the enough ammo argument.

Pick a gun you like, practice and get good with it, and feed it quality ammo and you should be fine for almost anything you run into.

Amen, jdonovan... I was getting to say almost the exact same thing!

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For the sake of discussion; "the largest caliber that you can effectively control," how do you define effectively and how do you measure it? I realize the answer will vary among people, but i'm interested in what folks here consider good enough with respect to effectively controlling a handgun.

Controlled pairs, Mozambique drill.... Your own time is up to you but if you can't knock out controlled pairs or a failure to stop drill in a few seconds, you need more practice or a lighter caliber, maybe.... That's just my take.

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Chasbo00 wrote:For the sake of discussion; "the largest caliber that you can effectively control," how do you define effectively and how do you measure it? I realize the answer will vary among people, but i'm interested in what folks here consider good enough with respect to effectively controlling a handgun.

Easiest way is to run some basic self-defense drills and see for yourself.

-Are you able to control the weapon's recoil?
-Are you taking too long with your follow-up shots?
-Do you have to re-adjust your grip after each shot?

In short, it's easy to see when someone is out of their league caliber-wise. They have a very hard time handling the weapon while shooting rapidly/accurately.

Alex wrote: -Are you taking too long with your follow-up shots?

What exactly is too long? Do I need 0.10 splits, or is 0.9 ok... ?

jdonovan wrote:

Alex wrote: -Are you taking too long with your follow-up shots?

What exactly is too long? Do I need 0.10 splits, or is 0.9 ok... ?

I was thinking more practically, rather than a concrete number. For example, when I shoot my Glock 27, I can fire rapidly, keeping the barrel on target, without having to re-adjust my grip. As such, my follow-up shots are quick, and maintain accuracy.

When my girlfriend shoots the same weapon, she has to stop in between 1-2 shot bursts to re-adjust her grip on the weapon, slowing her follow-up speed considerably.

But I think your 0.10 splits should be sufficient, just make sure you're packing a .50, which is the only viable self-defense round.

Alex wrote: -Are you able to control the weapon's recoil?
-Are you taking too long with your follow-up shots?
-Do you have to re-adjust your grip after each shot?

In short, it's easy to see when someone is out of their league caliber-wise. They have a very hard time handling the weapon while shooting rapidly/accurately.

What do you consider taking too long for follow-up shots, what is the accuracy standard, and at what distance? Unless you quantify these things we are back to just saying effectively control the handgun.