Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Few questions here. Im reloading 40 s&w. What I have to use ... Georgia Arms Bullets 165 grains FMJ. Bullseye powder and winchester primers. Brass has been cleaned deprimed and resized (once fired). Does it need to be trimmed? Book OAL states min of 1.120 (What would be a safe OAL). Im using a lee turret press, lee 4 die set with factory crimp and lee powder measure. Made about 50 or so rounds the other day and my OAL varried a bit Im wondering if that is because the brass is mixed or if it is because I have not trimmed the brass. Currently putting about 4.9 grains in. I have not fired any of this yet but it does seem to chamber well in my Taurus PT 140 pro. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I'm not looking to do any max loads right now just a safe load that wont blow my gun lol. All of these rounds are just for getting more range time at a reasonable cost.

BTW went to last gun show down in doswell. Georgia Arms booth had excelent selection of FMJ bullets at an extreamly reasonable cost. (bought over 2k 9mm 115 FMJ and 1k 40 S&W 165 grain FMJ for around .08 a piece)

ccooper wrote:. Does it need to be trimmed? Book OAL states min of 1.120 (What would be a safe OAL).

What did it measure? If over length, then it needs to be trimmed.
Generally the book lists a OAL for the loaded cartridge, and a trim to length for the brass. 0.010 greater than the trim-to means you need to trim.

my OAL varried a bit Im wondering if that is because the brass is mixed or if it is because I have not trimmed the brass.

OAL is controlled by seating depth, not brass length.

Note, crimp force will change based on brass length... and thats another good reason on auto-loading pistol ammo, to have a consistent brass length.

Currently putting about 4.9 grains of Bullseye in.

My manual says 5.8 gr of Bullseye for a 165 FMJ max. Starting load should be about 10% less... 5.2.

Loading manuals vary a bit, and you are not far off my 5.2 starting load, but things to watch for:

With your load you might be a bit too low for reliable cycling of the action. Also look for 'sooty' exteriors on your cases which can indicate lack of pressure, and the case not expanding enough to seal the brass to the chamber walls.

When working up new loads I generally only load 10 or so of a given power weight in case it doens't work out... then I don't have a 100 rounds to disassemble.

My OAL was between 1.118 and 1.123 roughly. I did try to adjust the seating die a bit (prolly what my issue was). I loaded the 50 because I was excited to use the new press worst case I can always pull them apart and redoo them. I just want to make sure that if the bullet is set a bit deeper will it be ok to test fire and adjust acordingly. I realize that deeper seated bullets cause more overall preasure I just dont know by how much. I did not measure the length of the brass I was told that since it was all only once shot factory stuff that it should be good to go. I was planning on measuring when I go to reload them again. Another question for you ... From what I understand bullseye is a fast powder so i wanted to start with a low charge (again still a beginer here) I am using a lee reloading manual and it didnt give much info on 165 grain FMJ's. OAL min 1.120 bullseye powder 4.7-5.8 grains. Also using the lee powder disk measure it varied about +/- .1 grain give or take.


When working up new loads I generally only load 10 or so of a given power weight in case it doens't work out... then I don't have a 100 rounds to disassemble.


Thanks for the info keep it coming ... would rather read more than have another moment

ccooper wrote: I realize that deeper seated bullets cause more overall preasure I just dont know by how much.

Quite variable, and quite dramatic some times.

.005 is more variance than I'd like to see in a FMJ... .002 would be reasonable. But I don't think you've varied by enough to be into 'i wouldn't shoot that' territory.

From what I understand bullseye is a fast powder so i wanted to start with a low charge (again still a beginer here) I am using a lee reloading manual and it didnt give much info on 165 grain FMJ's. OAL min 1.120 bullseye powder 4.7-5.8 grains. Also using the lee powder disk measure it varied about +/- .1 grain give or take.

Don't make your own 'guess' as to how much powder to use. Some powders... very common with H110... If you use too little it doesn't burn... it detonates. More than a few revolvers have been reduced to scrap with people trying to make a 'light H110' load.

If you get into reloading, you'll collect reloading manuals... I've got about 10 now. Its interesting reading. Starting load in manual A is a max load in manual B. and manual C is somewhere in the middle. Helps me figure out where I want to start from.

Also watch out for bullet shapes vs OAL. The oal for a FMJ is different from a TC which is different again from a JHP.

Another working up loads note.
In your case, I'd have started at 5.1grains, and done 10 rounds at 5.1, 10 at 5.2, 10 5.3, and 10 5.4.

I would have gone to the range with 4 different loads to test out, and would start with the lightest and work up. If I get over pressure signs, well, then I'll take them apart when I get home. If not I've got a bunch of testing done in a single range trip.

If you do that, keep a notebook and jot down notes about each load, you WONT remember it all when you get home.

How accurate was it?
Lots of flash, or not much
was the shooting feel sharp, or soft
did the action feel like it was slow to open/close or was it snapping open/closed very quickly.
was the feel from round to round the same, or did some feel different than others in the same group

If you are going to a more social gun club/range talk with the other folks there, you'll likely find some re-loaders, we love to talk shop. Also you might find someone who is willing to help out and mentor you some... This reloading thing is A LOT easier to watch it done, and then have the chance to try it out in front of someone who can help polish your techniques.

There is a lot more to making 'good' ammo than pouring some powder into a case and heading to the range.

There is a lot more to making 'good' ammo than pouring some powder into a case and heading to the range.

agreed

I have looked at a few different load manuals as well as contacted Alliant for their specific load recomendations (since I have been using their powder) Below is my question and thier response.

I am trying to find a recipe for reloading 165 grain GA arms FMJ using
winchester small pistol primers and bullseye powder. The closest thing I
have found is 5.8 grains and OAL of 1.120. Looking for load data for a
Taurus PT 140 Pro with 3" barrel. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Assuming that you are shooting a 40 SW, attached are some recipes to
consider. Thanks for your note.

Attachment:

40 Smith & Wesson


150 – 155 gr jacketed or lead
Bullseye start 5 grs max 5.5 grs
Unique start 5.5 grs max 6 grs
Power Pistol start 6.3 grs max 7 grs

165 gr jacketed or lead
Bullseye start 4.8 grs max 5.4 grs
Unique start 5.3 grs max 5.8 grs
Power Pistol start 6 grs max 6.8 grs

180 gr jacketed or lead
Bullseye start 4.6 grs max 5.1 grs
Unique start 5 grs max 5.5 grs
Power Pistol start 5.8 grs max 6.3 grs

Note: Start with the minimum charge wt and test fire a few to be sure they will cycle the action of your pistol before reloading a quantity.


The only thing missing here is OAL. I am still waiting on their reply as far as that goes I know alot of people use factory loads to set up their bullet seating depths and factory crimp dies. ( any insight on this?) I have not been able to find a factory 165 grain 40 s&w locally.

Here is their online load data. The OAL for the 165 can't be used as their bullet is a GDHP, and you are using a FMJ.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/ ... ulletid=41

The load data they gave you was for lead or jacketed, and that likely means its on the low side to prevent leading problems with an all-lead projectile.

ccooper wrote: I know alot of people use factory loads to set up their bullet seating depths and factory crimp dies. ( any insight on this?)

That might be OK if they were using the same powder, bullet, primer, etc... as the factory... but they are not.

Until you get enough experience and knowledge to know why you are deviating from the reloading manual... don't. Get a few manuals and follow their recipes VERBATIM.

Thanks again jdonavan. I have a few manuals but will go ahead and buy some more to cross referance. Also I will post alliant's OAL when they get back to me.

OAL’s will differ from bullet to bullet, even if of the same weight. This is due to different nose designs. My guess is you will be around 1.125”.




Ben Amonette

Technical Service Manager

Alliant Powder Company

I think it is rare for pistol brass to need any case trimming.

depends how much of it you loose vs picking up others once fired.... and how hot you are loading.

But I will say in 20 + years of reloading I've never trimmed any auto loader brass, and just about the time my revolver brass is getting just about ready to need trimming, it cracks.

So its safe to say that as long as I have no buldges, cracks or anything that looks irregular the brass is good to go?

ccooper wrote:So its safe to say that as long as I have no buldges, cracks or anything that looks irregular the brass is good to go?

How your pants fit.....never mind.

Yes, inspect for that stuff... oh if you don't recognize the headstamp as a common USA brand, look inside and make sure its not berdan primed.

Just wanted to give you an update on my 40 S&W reloads. Below is the recipe that I used and they functioned flawlessly.

165gr Georgia Arms bullet
5gr of bullseye powder
OAL of 1.125 +/- .003
Win primer
Mixed brass

Range tested in Taurus PT 140 pro.
Extremely satisfied considering im making these for about a dime a piece compared to factory rounds that run me about 24c a piece.

glad to hear things are working well.

Yeah I got a ton of these Georgia Arms bullets for 9mm and 40s&w just gotta find some more time to sit down and make them useful.

Welcome to VGOF and reloading! Congratulations also in potentially becoming an international criminal, in the event the CIFTA treaty is signed by congress. See you in The Hague!

Tweaker wrote:Welcome to VGOF and reloading! Congratulations also in potentially becoming an international criminal, in the event the CIFTA treaty is signed by congress. See you in The Hague!

stuff like this makes me want to put up a stock pile of reloading components... like a lifetime supply of bits.

I wonder what a lifetime supply would be in reality....
100 rounds a week, 52 weeks a year, 50 years of shooting.... about 250,000 rounds.

Oh never mind I'm already covered then.

Interesting if you did commercial 9mm at $0.20/round that would only be $50,000 for a lifetime supply... and if you didn't shoot 2 boxes a week, every week, perhaps A LOT less.

You guys are killing me